Digital ID needs to be resisted, surely?

[Honish]

There are just under 1 million illegal immigrants believed to be in Britain. The authories know who most of them are, and they are still here. Identifying them has never been the problem. We don't deport them, knowing who they are does not change this. This is one of the most breathtaking, blatant lies, made to us by our PM.

And the provider company for the digital ID, the person set make ever so many more millions than he already has, Tony Blairs son. How are people OK with this?

It gives any future government an awful lot of potential power and control over us, unprecedented amounts on a micro level. That's not concerning to you?

You say it will make your life easier, is it worth the potential risks for the sake of a tiny bit of ease? Many things in modern life that have been introduced for our apparent easd were clearly, in hindsight, more about making money and they have actually made life more complicated. Or they make it easier in one way but more difficult in another. Life being easier isn't the ultimate goal, there are things more important than ease.

Doesn't pay to be naive or lazy.

Starmer is a Davos man. Look at where this is coming from. It's not some benign alternative to an NI number or a passport. We're moving towards a social credit system. It won't happen all at once, but it will happen. The migrant crisis is being used as a reason to get the public on board. It absolutely stop illegal migrants or illegal working.

I think this is the one issue that has the potential to unite people across the political spectrum. It will certainly be the final nail in the coffin for Starmer in the next election, not that he will mind.

What extra control do you think the government will have over citizens if we have digital ID, and how do you think they will exert this and to what end?
The government already has a huge amount of information about citizens from passports, driving licences, birth and marriage registration etc, all of which is already on the government's computer systems.
Why do you think digital ID is going to change anything at all for you in a negative way?

I’m curious how you feel about the NHS app? Not the GP booking system as that’s a different issue entirely, but centralising all of your medical data in to one app (prescriptions, test results, discharge letters, medical history etc). Different trusts will use private providers to compile that data - hospitals and GPs can sometimes use several providers where that data is then pooled in to one NHS app. Patients know best is one of those private companies but other parts of the UK can use something else. This has been in use for years now. It’s made things easier for us as patients (easy access), but I’m interested to see how you would see it making it harder in others?

Will it allow access to services or benefits? Using AI capability now, there’s a lot more that can be done in terms of data.

Why do it? If it won’t stop illegal working, what’s the point?

Denial of goods and services unless you meet certain criteria. Rationing of things such as car fuel in order to reduce an individual's carbon output. Just two quick examples.

The rationing of fuel is a very very unlikely scenario.

Denial of goods and services already exists - it’s called a credit score.

The illegal working is a smokescreen. It's being introduced as the beginning of a social credit system. Will take around a decade to fully establish. Gradually more and more things will be included. Expect digital currency shortly as well. The government will grant themselves full access to our bank accounts. Have an outstanding parking charge against you - no more fuel until you pay it sort of thing.

A credit score doesn't stop you buying food, alcohol, fuel etc. There are other types of credit score.

Yep. No cash, ‘bedrock of the state’ was the quote. Not in the manifesto, just Starmer. I completely agree.

If you can’t lead then control. We’re getting a bit jumpy and this will stop that.

I think you’re imagining all sorts of Black Mirror scenarios with this system.

The government already has access to all of this information about you. They could introduce a social score if they wanted to without a digital ID card because this information is already on all of their systems.

Passport Denial for Failure to Pay Child Support https://share.google/kQKZY8jpyDwfXyb7d

Example from the US. It's not blackmirror, it's happening. Look at the Vietnamese shut down of people's bank accounts very recently.

The US has a list of reasons why they can refuse a passport, not just child support.

What is possible changes with AI. As you can see with charities unhappy about how benefit recipients accounts will be used. I think people need to get more up to date.

What does this have to do with digital ID cards? A law was passed to allow for this - since 1997 may I add according to this article. The UK gov could do the same and all it needs is looking at someone’s CMS account or a court ruling which they already have access to in order to enforce this. Absolutely nothing to do with a digital ID card!

Also are we really comparing the US and Vietnamese legal system to the UK? It’s like a parallel universe.

What evidence have you got that any of this type of thing will occur? Why do you think that simply having digital ID is going to mean that this country suddenly becomes like North Korea?
Or do you just like whipping yourself up into an unnecessary frenzy imagining all sorts of fantastical scenarios?

@TY78910why do you want it?

Some people really are unable to connect the dots. Yes the government already know who we are, this isn’t about that, it’s about them centralising everything to one platform which they can then use to turn us on or off as people. Don’t you get it? Look up the CBDC 2030 agenda, they are digitalising currency alongside our ID, meaning everything will be centralised and when you don’t conform or do something against what they want you to, they will switch your life off. Then eventually your freedom of movement will be non existent due to climate change. This isn’t conspiracy they’ve admitted this is their agenda, people would rather bury their heads in the sand until it’s too late.

Rationing of fuel very unlikely? I won’t bet on it. Not when “climate change” becomes the big scary buzzword again, at the moment “immigration” holds that accolade. In 2020 it was “virus”, in 2021 it was “variant”.

Denial of goods and services? This is a stepping stone towards “permission from government” needed to buy certain things. Had the infra structure been in place in 2020, they would almost certainly have used it. If a future government wants to bring in such a thing, they would normalise “digital ID needed for some or all purchases first”, under the guise of convenience. Many of the public had no hesitation about “checking in” with the test and trace app.

I don’t think this is really a “Starmer” thing: more a “something government has always wanted” thing - they’ve just needed the right moment to bring it in, when they think they’ll have the public on their side. It was shelved (but not forgotten) when Blair talked about it, and Boris said “I will eat my ID card in front of anyone who asks me to produce it”. But he would have brought it in under duress, if he could sell it as “it will prevent another lockdown”.

Im fine with it if it closes any loopholes which can currently be exploited.
Ive got a drivers licence, passport, bank cards, blah de blah so whats the difference?

I have no concerns about the gubment tracking me, because quite honestly, we all carry a device around with us that tracks our every move, our every keystroke and conversation, knows our buying habits our browsing habits our likes, dislikes and location, and we carry that WILLINGLY.
If the gubment has nowt better to do than spy on a middle aged woman then best of luck to them.

If it saves me from digging through a mountain of paperwork every time I need to register for a service, because all I have to do is log in to an app and generate a little code, I’m happy to do so. I’m all for not having a filing cabinet of paperwork I need to rummage through.

Because it's not just going to be an identification card. Why would they bring in an id card to prevent illegal working if employers are already supposed to check id now?

because a physical ID can be forged.

Suit yourself and make use of hyperbole whilst you still can. AI and the massive data centres currently being built in the UK will soon deal with the massive amounts of information incoming from the population. Not to mention the algorithms required for such systems to be put in place.