To think Starmer calling Refom and its supporters ‘racist’ is politically suicidal?

[SpottyAardvark]

Starmer has called Reform’s policy of ending indefinite right to remain for non-EU immigrants ‘immoral’ & ‘racist’. Reform supporters, and people who are considering voting for Reform because of their concerns about immigration, will inevitably think the Prime Minister is calling them immoral racists, too. And that will infuriate millions of voters.

I understand that it’s Labour’s conference this week and because he is under a lot of political pressure from his own side, Starmer believes he has to throw some red meat to his party. That’s politics. But Starmer has obviously forgotten what happened to Hillary Clinton when she described Trump voters as ‘deplorable’. That didn’t work out well for her, did it?

YABU = Starmer is right. Reform and its supporters are racists and he should call it out.

YANBU = Starmer has just committed political suicide by falling into Farage’s trap and he has alienated working class voters.

But it will create other people jobs. Just back end. Someone has to design it, someone has to ensure it’s working, someone needs to ensure it’s compliant, someone needs to ensure others are trained or that the AI is trained using real people examples. Those jobs don’t exist now, or are just starting to develop as a result of the change.

Labour can easily win the next election by preempting the Reform policies, but now.
Starmer saying the policies won’t work is not enough.
Just stop dead all immigration unless it’s medical, scientific or engineering.
Review it every month. Publish numbers and professions of those allowed in. Adjust the policies as needed over the next 3 years. Raise taxes and invest heavily in the immigration service. Process every person with 6 months. Give Reform nowhere to go.
The current rules allow hair dressing salon managers in. WTF?

But people are kind of shouting it out loud already. I mean, on MN there’s threads started on the subject every day, mostly by people denouncing Reform. it’s in the News every day, on SM every day and yet the polls are still showing Reform rising in popularity, so clearly people aren’t listening to the ‘shouting loud’ brigade…

But it won’t need as many people to oversee the process as, if it did, what would be the point of AI?

The trouble with this policy is that we already know means testing doesn’t work for the existing benefit programs. It’s either too harsh or too lenient because it’s easier and cheaper to have a one size fits all than assessing thoroughly individual circumstances.

So what happens in the scenarios where you have someone who pays in and works their way for 20+ years and then get terminally ill meaning they need to now be cared for by the state? Will reform say - you no longer meet the criteria so go back to your home country to die there?

The Labour Party lost me as a voter (and member) many years ago. I’m still livid with them for being so atrocious in gvt. Unthinkably bad, unthinkably corrupt. And now today’s fiasco. Here Reform, here are more supporters. Do you want fries with that?

The Conservatives are biding their time, I suppose. I’d vote for them, if they become viable with a proceed-able leader. I like KB (and frankly she’s had more racist shit to put up with than the majority of Labour supporters, I imagine), but she’s not putting herself in the best light right now.

There’s time, let’s see what happens. But for now our current shambolic gvt, is paving the road with gold for Reform to win. Anyone who cheers that process on, by helping Labour demonise millions of good people, who are not racist, is part of the problem.

Just to add to my very long rant- the main point I managed to forget. The weird thing about patriotism is that most people do nothing to make where they live in the UK a better place. Basically they just happened to be born here. Litter picking, local voluntary work, helping out in the community? Nope, just happen to be born in the UK not in a war zone or a place where you may be persecuted. I would say that is luck rather than superiority and I can not begin to imagine the desperation that would drive me to put myself and family at risk to give up everything (including the money that needs to be raised) to go through what many asylum seekers do.

Gordon Brown started all this nonsence in 2010 by calling a poor old dear a bigot for saying she didn't like how her town was changing for the worse. Then Thornberry in 2014 mocked a white van man for having a St George's Flag. Now Starmer calls his opposition racist.

Labour need to appeal to voters not call them childish names (much as you are too). Grow up.

I do think it’s true that many people are just accepting the immigration as the source of all your problems without really thinking the implications through - because when you are desperate you need solutions , and when you are desperate you don’t have the energy to think things through

If people feel that illegal immigration is out of control, does that mean they are racist?

Because that’s how a lot of people tempted to vote Reform feel. They are concerned about the hundreds of unidentified people (largely military aged men from misogynistic countries) who are arriving here daily. People who have passed through numerous other safe countries where they could - and should - have sought asylum. People who throw away identifying documents so we’ve no idea of crimes they may have committed or even if they are from countries where they face persecution. People who are costing a small fortune every day to house and feed.

No other country tolerates the massive influx of illegal immigration that we do. Does that mean the rest of the world is also racist?

Trouble is the word racist has been so liberally overused that has ceased to have any power.
I realised a few years ago when people kept shouting racism if anyone made a criticism of Meghan Markle that the word had been devalued to point of meaningless drivel. I think there needs to be a new word for people who are genuinely hateful over skin colour. I would've been devastated to be accused of racism once, but now it would feel the much the same as if I were called a terf. It reads now as a shoddy attempt to silence others.

Anyone who cheers that process on, by helping Labour demonise millions of good people, who are not racist, is part of the problem.

You'll be counting the OP in that then?

With their thread title pretending Starmer had called Reform voters racist?

I suspect a lot of the people in polling indicating ‘reform’ are not actually super invested in reform’s platform, but are registering a protest against Labour and Conservatives. I have no idea what any of the parties stand for anymore, I just see gross incompetence and a lack of vision from both of the major parties. To my mind Labour is the worst of the lot, so I would vote for anyone that gets Labour out, including Reform, despite not really agreeing with much of their platform. While I would never have voted Labour, their persistent rhetoric does actually make it easier to vote strategically for a party that I don’t really agree with just to see them out.

Political suicide?

Hardly. It’s about time he stopped pussyfooting around and went for the jugular.

People who vote Reform are not going to vote for Keir Starmer. He needs to stop pandering to them and trying to out-Reform Reform.

And for every voter they lose to Reform they lose two to other options - parties like the Greens, Lib Dems - or just not voting at all etc.

In what way has he been pandering to reform voters? If you’re talking about trying to tackle immigration, isn’t that something most people are concerned about, whether Reform or any other voter. And you’re not painting a good picture of the Labour leader, if you think it’s good that he is flip flopping to see what approach works best. This is disingenuous at best.

Meanwhile, I wonder what Nigel Farage is achieving for his Clacton constituents?
Is he a more committed MP than he was MEP?

You Said it !

Reform are racist.

I actually respect for saying this.

It's about time Deform were called out for what they are

But that’s not what this is about. Starmer said that the proposed policy to revoke indefinite leave to remain status from non-EU countries is racist and immoral. It wasn’t to do with asylum seekers.

This is the trouble with Reform voters. Add 2 + 2, get 10000000000. Policy is criticised as racist = all reform voters are racist. Plans to revoke status from legal immigrants = asylum seekers. 🙄

Flip flopping is about the right choice of words. Didn’t he say we are becoming an “Island of strangers” not so long back, then U-turned again. He’s just making himself look silly now

Reform would most likely bring back hunting. Farage is a huge fan.
Nothing would persuade me to vote for a party that supports blood sports.

I voted YANBU and whilst I admire him saying it out loud, this has the potential to go the same way as Brexit. I think it’s not enough to disagree with the other side, call them names and sit on our superior high horses - there needs to be a real effort to understand why people feel this is the alternative.

I am hugely fortunate to work with a multicultural, multi national team within the NHS. I only see the positive side. it is too easy to say there isn’t a problem, it them vs us.

It's not the left who are the snowflakes after all.

Well they already are by some people aren’t they? It’s not like those against Reform aren’t speaking out. As far as I can see, people are very clearly calling them out if they feel a certain way about them.

Racist AND pig headed.

Nice.