To think Starmer calling Refom and its supporters ‘racist’ is politically suicidal?

[SpottyAardvark]

Starmer has called Reform’s policy of ending indefinite right to remain for non-EU immigrants ‘immoral’ & ‘racist’. Reform supporters, and people who are considering voting for Reform because of their concerns about immigration, will inevitably think the Prime Minister is calling them immoral racists, too. And that will infuriate millions of voters.

I understand that it’s Labour’s conference this week and because he is under a lot of political pressure from his own side, Starmer believes he has to throw some red meat to his party. That’s politics. But Starmer has obviously forgotten what happened to Hillary Clinton when she described Trump voters as ‘deplorable’. That didn’t work out well for her, did it?

YABU = Starmer is right. Reform and its supporters are racists and he should call it out.

YANBU = Starmer has just committed political suicide by falling into Farage’s trap and he has alienated working class voters.

Every radio phone in and now on this thread is clogged up with people wrongly stating that asylum seekers are not legally here because they passed through 'safe countries' to get here. If you are going to comment at least get your facts straight. There is also ate very good and well documented reasons the most able members of the family (often young men) make the journey-paying thousands of pounds. The UK take a tiny percentage of asylum seekers throughout Europe. We are not 'full' and the actual cost is miniscule compared to the other issues facing us. The propaganda fed by the right wing press is depressing but the fact that so many hard of thinking people accept it at face value when the actual facts are very easy to find is even worse. So KS is absolutely right to call out this bullshit and it should have happened long before now.

It’s about f’n time he started telling the truth and stating facts. YABU.

Both those politicians felt it politically.

@ExtraOnions

When did it become wrong to point out when people were being Racist?

When people don't seem to understand what the term racist actually means.

What’s wrong with pointing out that, accusing all immigrants of being sex offenders is Racist ?

Its not, but then neither is calling those that are sex offenders racist.

What’s wrong with telling these “patriots” that you can be worried about immigrating without dehumanising individuals?

Nothing. As long as you can worried about immigration without being called a racist.

When did being Anti-Facist become a bad thing?

When a huge swathe of them stopped any form of discussion, and as bad as those that they hate.

When did “British people have had enough” become an excuse for violence?

Has it? the last/continuing way that these people are complaining is by hanging flags.

I would sooner Racists just said “yes, I’m racist, I don’t like Black & Brown people (unless they are playing football, serving me in a takeaway, or winning sporting medals), and I don’t think any should live here”.

I have no doubt that if they could without losing their livelihoods they probably would, but I doubt that you would be OK with that.

The never mention White immigration….

You seem to have forgotten the huge amount of complaints about eastern European immigrants.

I remember the NF in the 1970s.. and it morph into the BNP .. and now Reform. Same shit, different name.

Yup, just a rebrand.

You can only be upset about people making judgements about reform voters if you're intending to be one already. No pushing towards anything required.

Not really. He is correct that the policy of ending ILR is racist. A lot of people who claim to be Reform voters will revert to the Tories in four years. Some will vote Labour and some can't be arsed. Labour is leaking votes to the Greens , to Libdems, possibly to Corbyn and mostly to apathy.

It can't hurt Starmer to actually believe in something. Not that it matters if he can't improve housing health and education. That's what counts. If he can effect some improvement he will win . The end.

How dramatic.

there is always the option of applying for citizenship for anyone with 1 year of ILR. Currently people don’t bother because it is a bit of a faff and also sometimes sentimentality, especially when their origin nation doesn’t allow dual citizenship. If it really mattered, more would seek citizenship. I speak as someone with ILR - I could apply for citizenship anytime, but it has never been worth the effort.

That works both ways though.

We have reams upon reams of posts on mm now attacking KS (and with this thread as an example, for something he never actually said!) and yet any criticism the other way isn’t allowed?

One way freedom of speech, that kind of thing…

a lot of people claiming they will vote reform come from those who voted Labour in 2024

The true danger comes when society is so desensitised to being called racist that people just start turning round and saying 'Whatever, sure, I guess I am then'.

If people have been called racist for having legitimate concerns enough times (I'm an immigrant, and even I have concerns about the recent quality of legal migration) then that is what will happen. Self fulfilling prophecy.

And the white middle class wretches that enjoyed hammering away on their keyboards will suddenly keep their heads down while we pay the real life price for their dopamine rush crusade.

The same as people suddenly did en masse when they were called 'transphobic' for every stupidly imagined transgression.

We are so close to it, perhaps we are already there.

Ah, very good and well documented reasons given by the men who come here, conveniently losing documents proving where they originate from, and lie about which country they’re escaping from. You mean those men? So of course we should believe their ‘well documented’ reasons…..Are you trying to have us believe that the men come here alone so that their families can safely wait for them in the countries they’ve escaped from? You know, those countries where their lives are in danger, but they think their families lives aren’t? Just think about it….

Really? What a niche voting interest.

Not really, not if animal welfare is important to you.

And you can keep doing that. It doesn't mean anything to those you use it on, if you do indeed use it. It has no power.

It's just not how you persuade anyone of anything.

Not really a top 10 issue for most of the electorate though. Thus, niche.

But tbh, there have been a lot of mis informed comments on Farage’s recent speech on MN, taking what he said out of context and, even worse, scaremongering amongst people with worries about what his statement actually means. There’s a lot of it going on on both sides.

Over half of the population have a pet.
Millions of people are members/supporters of animal charities.

Many people won't be happy if Farage tries to bring back fox and deer hunting with dogs.

I have a pet, still okay with hunting.

This is the first time I've ever seen people trying to water down the word racist.

That makes you one of the 10% of the UK population who are ok with hunting.
We're both niche.

That’s what happens when the word is thrown about in answer to everything and anything. It starts to mean nothing. It loses its meaning. It’s effect is diluted. It’s used just to close down debate and discussion. And here we are….

I also hold an ILR and eligible for citizenship. For me it’s always been the upfront cost and the faff. There are better ways to spend 2k than a citizenship. I also don’t feel I need to be seen as ‘British’ on a piece of paper (because I am not British) for someone to see my worth for what it is.

https://protectthewild.org.uk/news/gruesome-footage-highlights-the-criminality-of-englands-stag-hunters/

Hunt supporter