To think Starmer calling Refom and its supporters ‘racist’ is politically suicidal?

[SpottyAardvark]

Starmer has called Reform’s policy of ending indefinite right to remain for non-EU immigrants ‘immoral’ & ‘racist’. Reform supporters, and people who are considering voting for Reform because of their concerns about immigration, will inevitably think the Prime Minister is calling them immoral racists, too. And that will infuriate millions of voters.

I understand that it’s Labour’s conference this week and because he is under a lot of political pressure from his own side, Starmer believes he has to throw some red meat to his party. That’s politics. But Starmer has obviously forgotten what happened to Hillary Clinton when she described Trump voters as ‘deplorable’. That didn’t work out well for her, did it?

YABU = Starmer is right. Reform and its supporters are racists and he should call it out.

YANBU = Starmer has just committed political suicide by falling into Farage’s trap and he has alienated working class voters.

That’s lucky, but the exception rather than the norm. In my experience.

HE DID NOT.

He called the migrant LTR policy racist.

Sir Keir added he did not think Reform UK supporters were racist but "frustrated" after 14 years of "Tory failure".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6xdw1dg4zo

A single statement from Starmer won't affect many votes, certainly not this statement anyway. But persistent messaging that reform voters are racist, which is currently coming more from left wing voters in general than from Labour leadership, will have that affect. Psychologically it's far easier to decide the people insulting you are utterly wrong and to reject them and their beliefs, than to accept their analysis that you have this major moral failing.

That’s fine just as long as you’re also aware that just because a tonne of people may be shipped out of this country doesn’t mean you will land their jobs, homes and benefits. Nor will public services be any better.

Because they have severe dementia and we are unable to care for them adequately or safely at home! Believe me if there was any other option they wouldn’t be in there!

This rhetoric of blaming the 'left'(which seems to mean anyone with a social conscience, I would never vote reform but I am certainly not a typical 'lefty') for forcing people to vote reform is really grating. If you're going to vote reform just own it for what it is and be honest with yourself about your reasons. When they get in it will be the responsibility of the people who voted for them, not the people who didn't and never would. But somehow when it all goes tits up very rapidly it will still be the 'left's' fault for forcing them to vote for the big old racist party.

And there are lot of people with indefinite leave to remain in this country who are paying a lot of taxes that's paying for the benefits of those who aren't working. It's not going to be bonanza time when they are forced out.

No, that’s not what I said. I said that some jobs may become redundant, but they will create jobs in different fields. That doesn’t mean that there will be less jobs overall.

For example - you used to have switchboard operators in the 40s that took care of connecting calls between people. Those became extinct job roles, replaced by many in telecommunications. So whilst the process became automated, it created a lot more engineers and people that programmed phone systems.

AI does mean fewer jobs.

You were stating what the UK population had “had enough of”.

I’m curious as to why Charlie Kirk being murdered by a lone psycho in the US has anything to do with British people having “had enough” of our current government.

Call a spade a spade. Let’s stop pussy footing around- you can’t be passive in these matters. They’re a racist scummy party and about time we starting shouting it out loud.

I mean he’s not wrong.
But given that the racists no longer care about their racism being called out, he would have done better to point out all the other awful policies of Reform: bringing us US -style insurance based healthcare; cutting taxes for the wealthy, rolling back employment safeguards so employers can go back to firing and re-hiring etc

I think this is how Donald trump got elected surely. All the if you agree with him then you are a stupid bigot. If you have concerns about immigration then you are a racist bigot. If you have concerns about men in women’s changing rooms you are a transphobic bigot. Just need a Farage is for you campaign.

Alienation is just going to lead to entrenchment then it’s impossible to win people over. It’ll be the pensioners (probably) who decide and anecdotally have heard quite a lot of complaining about Labour potentially getting rid of triple lock. It’s unsustainable so will need to go but suspect Farage will promise to keep it by cutting welfare bill, immigration and getting rid of all the pesky legalities.

I’m sure it will be better for some, probably not for the people that are gullible enough to vote for Reform but someone I assume will make lots of money.

So he’s in denial about the failure of his own party and prefers to blame another party who is no longer in government. The tories were dire but Starmer is completely in denial about his own popularity rating falling to such an extent yet he’s somehow blaming other parties for that. He’s not addressing the concerns or issues that a lot of voters have at the moment, just deflecting and blaming other parties as usual.

Speak for yourself. I still consider the word “racist” to mean being prejudiced against or antagonistic towards people on the basis of their racial or ethnic group.

I’m glad Starmer has called a spade a spade.

Well trying to appease all voters is not working- just pissing off their core voters. I am old enough to now be pragmatic enough to understand the impossible situation the Labour government is in. They have inherited an absolute shit show and have a bigger mountain to climb than any government in recent memory. The right wing press are gunning for them and they are be held to higher standards than those who have gone before. David Cameron's austerity set in motion a chain of events which have led us to this point. The arrogant arsehole pandered to the UKIP crowd by promising a referendum he did not win due to complancey. The leave the EU politicians (all bloody chancers and grifters, Farage is a very rich man who has benefited from free trade and was married to an EU national) played on people feeling poorer and blamed it on immigration. Same with Boris Johnson, just so they could have a chance in power.The irony looking back as we are much worse off now.

I am glad Starmer is calling out Farage and his supporters at last and the overt racism which is becoming normalised in the UK. There is nothing in Farage's thinking or rationale that is positive for the UK and I have no time for the hard of thinking that lap it up. The UK used to be respected for its compassion and tolerance and as an Island we were built on immigration (and the bloody Empire). I am from Irish stock and late DH's mother was from Burma. Both sides of our family have contributed as workers in public services and in this generation high earners that happily pay our taxes. The uneducated bloody racists who are now being given a voice, flooding every radio phone in ranting about 'illegals' (totally choosing to not understand what an asylum seekers is) and sticking up tatty flags every where are laughable. All talk about a blitz spirit and harp back to a fictional Britain which did not exist and a time in which and neither they and probably their parents were not even born.

The problem facing the UK is that services have been privitised and run down to such a huge extent over the last 15 years, it is practically impossible to come back from that. People have got very rich (look at Michelle Mone and the Tory fast track policy in covid, privitisation of the care system for looked after children and elderly care) whilst most of us feel much poorer. Raising taxes to pay for the increasing cost of the elderly population and NHS etc is a no go zone. Businesses and landlords should have been clamped down on years ago and have been subsidised far too much. They are now horrified that they are having to pay more and moaning that they will just have to go out of business and cause unemployment/homelessness. Maybe they should have been paying a fair wage, employee contributions and proper taxes before now, rather than being supported by the state and tax payers.

Sorry to disappoint, but no, not generalising. Specific problems with specific local tradies – a shockingly large number deciding to take advantage of me, a disabled woman living alone.

In fact I was about to come back and say, "By the way, all praise to the minority of reliable tradies (immigrant and 'indigenous') who do turn up and are absolutely fantastic. Wouldn't want them to feel unappreciated."

The decent ones know all about the cowboys – they've been dealing with the aftermath. But I don't have decent professionals for all necessary jobs, so sometimes it's the neighbours.

Thank you decent tradies! Thank you neighbours!

I don't judge on where people come from. I judge on how people behave. And the good parts of the community around me are VERY good. I don't find it corresponds to where people were born. <shrug>

But that doesn’t stack up for many industries. The examples you’re giving is replacing people roles with other people roles. Getting rid of bank branches and admin roles going to AI, there are no other roles which are going to be created on the back of that. It’s having a huge impact already, and this is just the beginning. You can already see it having an effect.

If that was my relative and someone was caring for mine like that, I'd report them . Why are you not doing that, ffs ?

It really doesn’t. The question is can people keep up with the change of how it’ll transform jobs. People who throw their hands up and get angry and say ‘AI took my job’ instead of re-training and filling in positions created as a result of AI will be the problem.

He's right though.

He did not call Reform voters Racist.

The title of this thread is wrong and is written to cause division.

But they won’t be forced out. They will have to pay thousands every 5 years or so to renew their visa, and a handful who no longer meet the criteria will have to leave.

No but probably for another thread.

Encouraging to see how many people are saying
lets call a spade a spade. It may well be the way starmer gains some popularity, certainly by reading these responses.
he’s spent months and months anyway pandering to reform voters, only to be see his popularity plummet.