To think Starmer calling Refom and its supporters ‘racist’ is politically suicidal?

[SpottyAardvark]

Starmer has called Reform’s policy of ending indefinite right to remain for non-EU immigrants ‘immoral’ & ‘racist’. Reform supporters, and people who are considering voting for Reform because of their concerns about immigration, will inevitably think the Prime Minister is calling them immoral racists, too. And that will infuriate millions of voters.

I understand that it’s Labour’s conference this week and because he is under a lot of political pressure from his own side, Starmer believes he has to throw some red meat to his party. That’s politics. But Starmer has obviously forgotten what happened to Hillary Clinton when she described Trump voters as ‘deplorable’. That didn’t work out well for her, did it?

YABU = Starmer is right. Reform and its supporters are racists and he should call it out.

YANBU = Starmer has just committed political suicide by falling into Farage’s trap and he has alienated working class voters.

70% of the population accept hunting if for food - not exactly niche.

It only starts to mean nothing to people who don't care what it really means.

Who eats foxes?

@Livelovebehappy- do work in immigration and with asylum seekers and access the reputable research and publications explaining this? How many young men from Afghanistan have you legally represented after we pulled out and left them for dead? Or men from Albania who have a target on their back due to long running issues from the Kosovo conflict? Then there is homosexuality being a death warrent in lots of the world, child soldiers etc. There are many reasons young men are at risk and people in the UK questioning just shows their western privilege whilst wanting to reap the benefits from a global civilisation. I also support many women, lots trafficked and been through unimaginable circumstances. A lot of young men are trafficked into slavery/sex work too. I am assuming that if you have children and this was their future you would do anything possible to keep them safe?

similar attitude, but if it came down to me being able to remain with my family and stay in the uk I would go through the faff. The previous poster was worst casing someone being deported despite decades in the uk legally, but that is easily addressable if you priority is staying in the uk.

We all know what it means, but because of how and when people use it, often out of context, it loses its power.

I would but that doesn’t mean it’s our duty to accept anyone and everyone who is in danger across the world.

We can’t allow the world to turn into either concentrated asylum city states with brewing social tensions or vast swathes of nothingness presided over by despots. Everyone upping and leaving their ‘dangerous’ countries and moving to a small handful of small countries isn’t the answer.

He’s not calling the party or its supporters racist, but its policy to deport immigrants who are here and settled legally.
A fair point, I’d say.

You just posted about deer hunting?

I also have no issue with fox hunting personally, but then I lived (in London) at the intersection of two fox’s territories and would have readily offed them both while they were raging at each other at 3am.

Well if the shoe fits

But we’re talking about men coming here alone, and leaving their families. They are leaving countries where their lives are apparently in so much danger that they have to flee. Yet we are told to believe that they take this dangerous journey alone in order to bring their families over once they have been given asylum (can take months/years). Is it not equally dangerous for their families they leave behind, even if only temporary? Why is it more dangerous to cross the channel in a boat than it is to remain in these countries with dangerous regimes? It doesn’t make sense and if it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true.

The inflammatory language is nothing more than politicking; the major parties are upping the ante because Reform are leading the polls.
All of the major parties agree that illegal migration has to be urgently addressed, they claim to understand that it's a high priority for many of the electorate. Labour and Conservative however have demonstrated that they can't/won't address it. Name calling is the mark of an ineffectual leader, it's truly desperate measures - picking the lowest hanging fruit. I didn't think Starmer would be a good PM, but I didn't expect him to be quite as poor as he has been.

British politics is beyond depressing.

I think you mean cap

But isn’t this further encouraging disingenuousness? The very thing this country is upset about? People will be neutralising not because they genuinely see themselves as British, but because they just want to keep their residency status. This is what ILR is for - to be able to reside and carry yourself as any citizen, without having to state you’re British.

Also my initial post wasn’t about that particular scenario, as there will be dozens. My point was about the system not being comprehensive enough to assess appropriately.

Yep

Starmer is acting too reactive and directing his rhetoric towards a minor political party which is really wierd when his Labour govt took charge with a massive majority justv over a year ago.
Such a great opportunity to make swingeing changes yet nothing more than a couple of damp squibs with the Winter Fuel Allowance cuts (since re-instated to a £35k threshold) when the electorate may have foud a £25k threshold more palatable without the furore.

And the list goes on.... Starmer has served to open the door to the VIP Lounge for Reform. I'm sre to Nigel's surprise.

Labelling Reform Party members, politicians and voters as 'thick racists' only opens the door even more.

Best to come up with and enact some strong policies and legislation that strengthens a 'position'; if only Labour could identify as one position.

@Uggbootsforever what is the answer then? The UK is not being flooded with immagrants, whatever the press like the gullible to beleive. It is all a distraction from the actual issues no one wants to face up to.

I happen to be in Kosovo at the moment and all every one is asking is why the fuck did we leave the EU? Very difficult to answer and all I can think of is a really on point quote from the New York Times just after the referendum that watching the UK was like 'seeing someone decide to commit suicide but not yet sure how they would do it'.

i don’t think the issue is disingenuousness so much as reliance on the state after contributing very little. Settling in another country is intrinsically a bit vulnerable, and ultimately if you want assurances around your status and entitlements there will be trade offs. If you don’t want to get citizenship you ultimately accept the vulnerability, bit it isn’t fair to blame the state for the potential implications of that not fully settled status.

Where is the money coming from to support the asylum seekers? The government are bitching about disabled people, yet can find millions (? billions) to support and give legal assistance (and taxis) to the illegal migrants or asylum seekers.

Are these people being sponsored from somewhere?

“I think there are two ways in which people are controlled. First of all frighten people and secondly, demoralise them.”

A quote from Tony Benn’s interview with Michael Moore in Sicko, in which he highlighted poverty and healthcare inequality as a democratic issue. “The people in debt become hopeless, and the hopeless people don’t vote... an educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern,” he said.

Of course the issue we have today is a cost of living crisis, many people in debt / short of money / house prices way beyond wages/ food prices and energy bills rising all the time. Tax increases. People seeing huge population increases, communities changing, doctor’s appointments difficult to get, dentists often impossible etc.

But before where people felt hopeless, Reform are seemingly giving people a way through, an answer to the mess. They are giving them hope, rightly or wrongly.

And instead of trying to understand people’s concerns, Labour and Labour supporters are flinging around serious (and mostly incorrect) accusations of racism.

Anyone with a brain should see where this is leading. The question is, why are Labour allowing it to happen. Consequences of an unchecked reform gvt are potentially disastrous. Labour and many of their supporters are currently enabling this to happen. Not sure what else to say.

As they can’t see that, that leaves the Conservatives to mobilise and start being a viable option again. Come on Conservative Party wake up.

Well we are because our population is increasing by nearly a million a year. How many DOES it need to be before you admit there’s a problem? 3 million a year? 5 million? Is there a finite population you believe a smallish island can take?

I’m getting sick to death of people pretending we don’t have an overcrowding issue and insisting we can cram more people in because ‘otherwise we’re racist’.

I don’t think people even care about being called racist anymore, it’s been so overused it doesn’t pack the shame punch it used to.

@Livelovebehappy, what is so hard to understand? This is not a new phenomenon, over several decades a family member has been sent first to another country (not just the UK and also including from the UK) to then hopefully raise the money so the rest of the family can follow. Of course people are at risk, bloody hell- look at Ukraine and Gaza- it is not as if this is not on our doorstep. In my family the Jewish side fled the nazis, my Irish family fled the famine and troubles and my MIL fled Burma (and extreme wealth to a very happy life on a scheme in Edinburgh). But according to you and other posters they should have just stayed, faced their fate because why the hell should the rest of the world have any responsibility. Ironic because the UK empire caused many of the issues we see in the world. There is a reason studying history and politics is important. Reading the Daily Mail is not sufficient.

And instead of trying to understand people’s concerns, Labour and Labour supporters are flinging around serious (and mostly incorrect) accusations of racism.

At the risk of spoiling everyone's fun, here's what was actually said. Again. I've added more text from the article which didn't make it into the video.

Keir Starmer calls Reform migrant policy 'racist' and 'immoral'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6xdw1dg4zo

Kuenssberg: You said that proposal is immoral, to deport people who are already here if they don't pass more stringent rules. Do you think it's a racist policy?

Starmer: I do think it's a racist policy, I do think it's immoral, it needs to be called out for what it is.

Kuenssberg: And do you think that Reform UK is trying to appeal to racists?

Starmer: No. I think there are plenty of people who either vote Reform or are thinking of voting Reform who are frustrated. They had 14 years of failure under the Conservatives. They want us to change things – they may have voted Labour a year ago – and they want the change to come more quickly. I actually totally do understand that, if after 14 years your living standards haven't got any better and your public services have declined then of course you want change.

[...]
Starmer: It's one thing to say we're going to remove illegal migrants, people who have no right to be here, I'm up for that. It's completely different thing to say we're going to reach in to people who are lawfully here and start removing them. They are our neighbours, they're people who work in our economy, they're part of who we are. It will rip this country apart.

This is the opposite of not "trying to understand people's concerns."

Kuenssberg's the one suggesting the policy is racist.

Starmer responds that it is – and is very clear it is the policy which is racist, not in general voters considering Reform.

This.
Where he has said they're all racist? He hasn't. Should he not call out the policy in case someone gets the hump and think he's calling them personally racist? I swear there's sometimes some real comprehension issues going on around this discussion.