Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

[Kirova]

I get the point he's trying to make, of course, but it seems like a stick to beat parents with (and particularly mothers, of course). There's no sense in saying you want all children to be in the same place when they start school. Apart from anything else, some are nearly a year younger than others in their cohort, so clearly they are not going to be in the same place.

My youngest daughter was born premature, has a significant hearing impairment and various other difficulties. She will soon be two, and while she's doing brilliantly, I doubt she'll be "school-ready" by the government's current definition when she is four.

Not sure what my point is exactly, it just seems like another absurd over-simplification on the theme of failing our children, state of the country, etc.

Yes I think the only difference is we call it school, and perhaps are less flexible about what reception/ year 1 should look like.

Buttons and cutlery (assuming you mean knife and fork as opposed to say a spoon) is too much for many 5 year olds. My (school ready) 6 year old can’t do buttons unless they’re big or loose.

Patience and accepting no and also a bit much go routinely and consistently expect at 4

He wants both parents working so he can get tax off both of them and he wants mothers to raise their children so they can be ‘school ready’. Well done Keir. How about sorting out the economy so mothers can actually be at home with their kids instead of delegating that task to preschools and nurseries?

I'd say that would be somewhat of an own goal for him. Most school nurseries are 9 to 3, term time only.

Aren't there kids going to school.in nappies and weird things like that these days?

I think you're taking the remarks too personally.

Anecdotal evidence from this site alone, as well as comments from teacher organisations, paint a picture of NT children arriving in school in nappies, with low to no school readiness skills (by which I mean the ability to follow simple directions like 'sit down', the ability to focus on a two minute story the teacher is reading, and ability to perform simple tasks like putting on a jacket).

If parents feel shamed that that sort of neglect, so much the better. But I fear the response will be excuses and whataboutery.

Op I know for a fact that he’s not talking about children like your dd or parents like you. He’s talking about the parents with nt kids with no additional needs who simply can’t be bothered to get their kids ready for school. Don’t take it personally.

That was me as a child. I was also summer born so started a little later than others in my year and so was even further behind. By the end of primary I’d caught up and in secondary was ahead of my friends. I went in to get a MSc and have a really good career in the NHS for years. Hopefully your little one will go on to be successful in whatever she wants to do.

What does school ready look like?
Mine is a year away from school and I don't really know what that phrase means.

Can dress themselves, put on own coat and shoes.

Can use the loo independently

Can sit and listen to a story or the teacher for a few minutes

Can follow simple instructions eg "put your folder in your tray", "line up", "put the paint pots in the sink".

Understand they should do as asked by the teacher - eg to stop talking, sit down, come inside, put the book down, bring your water bottle.

Can hold a pencil and make simple marks - lines, circles,

Can play with (not solely destroy, throw, lick/suck etc) things like blocks, craft materials, dress up

Can share/turn take with others & keep hands to themselves etc

In some areas it would not be unusual for a high proportion of kids to:

• recognise some letters, especially those in their own name
• make proto writing marks or write something approximating their own name
• have played sound games like eye spy
• have played simple card & counting games & might recognise dot numbers like those on dice or dominos
• engage in complex role plays with peers like playing shopping, doctors, schools, hairdressers

Its less about academic skills and more about:

• obedience
• independence
• social skills

Remember it is rare for a ND child to have a diagnosis by four. Undiagnosed is not the same as NT.

Only about a third of hospice funding comes from the NHS. The majority of hospice care is funded by charities.

These threads always make me laugh. So many excuses for a lack of basic parenting.

I appreciate the point about nappies but 'the some who can already read' shouldn't be the bar by which all children are judged.

People who work closely with children and who have a lot of previous experience of children at school starting age can usually make a pretty well educated guess at the children who are likely to be diagnosed with SEN in future or those who would have been fine if their parents had engaged with them. It’s not too hard to tell the difference.

It’s not as if anyone is going to come round with a sick poking the parents who early years educators judge to have been lazy. But there is a need for some societal pressure to be put on parents to ensure that their children have basic independence skills before starting school and if that is not possible, then they should be actively looking for support instead of waiting for teachers to deal with it.

Oh yes I’ve just watched it back. I’m not KS biggest fan, far from it, but I think in this case he was just saying he wants kids and parents to be supported and motivated to be ready for school. As has been the need for ever. If kids are eg. Starting school in nappies - that’s the parents doing. Whether it’s because they them selves need further support, or because they’re feckless iPad parents. He wasn’t commenting on children who have have eg. special needs .

If you need SaLT or CAHMS or an ECHP this isn’t about the basics that every child needs.

Most of the children starting school now are Covid/lockdown babies, there were less health visitors visiting, no parent and baby groups, less support for mums and babies/toddlers.

This isn’t suddenly a problem though. Blimey my primary school in the 80s we had truely neglected children. Visibly dirty, smelly, brought go school without breakfast or sleep, uniform, no PE kit, if they wet themselves the teachers would smack them themselves.

I welcome higher standards being embedded and we don’t want to go backwards but this isn’t a modern problem, it’s a modern approach to a solution.

How can "the economy be sorted" to enable mothers not to participate in paid employment? Should the taxpayer be funding that?

I think we all just have to be careful not to generalise

We interact with DS all the time, paid for him to attend nursery, have always read to him, got him involved with activities eg shopping/tidying, allowed screen time but in moderation yet he has had speech delay and had started school less ready than his peers. On paper we have done everything to get him ‘school ready’ it is becoming clear that there are some sen issues though

Of course if parents have literally not done anything or are expecting nursery or school to do everything then that’s laziness but I do find parents can be quite judgemental and people need to be more mindful that there might be lots going on behind the scenes that they’re not aware of

I think this is a fairly good description, and agree with Keir Starmer on this.

Putting shoes and coat on themselves.
Sitting in a chair, at a table to eat using a knife and fork.
Drinking from a beaker.
Using the toilet themselves and being able to wipe.
Being away from their primary carer.

Schools are there to educate so the reading, writing etc will come with time.

OP you DC has valid reasons for developmental delays. Most children don't it's lazy parenting.

My (school ready) 6 year old can’t do buttons unless they’re big or loose.

This isn't typical. Have school talked about occupational therapy etc? When did you start practising? Lots of children can do buttons at 2 or 3. My son was slow at picking this up, we practised a lot when he turned 4 and he was fine by the time he started school at 4.5. Same with knives and forks... don't you eat with these at home? Its all about how early you expect them to be used & introduce them.

A lot of parents have very low expectations these days. I remember my year 2 teacher being exasperated by the 2 or 3 children who hadn't yet learned to tie their shoe laces
My own daughter is one of only two in her year 2 class who can now and people seem to think this is "too much" for children to manage. It isn't!

Totally agree

I don't think there's much doubt that today's rising fives are less ready for Reception than mine were around 97-99 or my own cohort in the mid sixties.

How, why and what do we do about it.

One thing that strikes me is that I can remember, aged 2-3, how uncomfortable a wet cotton terry nappy was. Modern disposables are a different kettle of fish.