Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

[Kirova]

I get the point he's trying to make, of course, but it seems like a stick to beat parents with (and particularly mothers, of course). There's no sense in saying you want all children to be in the same place when they start school. Apart from anything else, some are nearly a year younger than others in their cohort, so clearly they are not going to be in the same place.

My youngest daughter was born premature, has a significant hearing impairment and various other difficulties. She will soon be two, and while she's doing brilliantly, I doubt she'll be "school-ready" by the government's current definition when she is four.

Not sure what my point is exactly, it just seems like another absurd over-simplification on the theme of failing our children, state of the country, etc.

Mine can do most of those, we're working on the dressing independently. She can put her coat on and pull trousers up and down etc but that's about it.

There's no sense in saying you want all children to be in the same place when they start school.

Yes there is. Otherwise if there are no standards, educating large numbers at once doesn't work.

They do need to be ready to take part and parents need to make sure they are.

I think it's more about his agenda to prove school nurseries are better than PVI settings, than an attack on parents. He wants all babies in schools (cheaper to pay funding, and gets parents back in work).

Yes and its funny how pps can say with such authority that these kids are not ND when waiting lists are so long that even a kid like mine whose delays were so bad that every professional kept referring us because “early help makes such a difference” STILL hasn’t got a diagnosis age 6 when we left the country and ipso facto received none of the early help he needed. But noooo. Clearly bad parenting was why my preemie august child with very likely ND wasn’t school ready the minute he turned 4, despite the fact my other child was school ready by age three. 😂

I work in infants and we have all noticed a marked increase in the number of children who come to school without basic school ready skills. The biggest difference I see is at lunch. So many children don’t seem able to sit at a table and eat. Some try to wander around the lunch hall, many can’t use forks and knives properly and some insist on eating with their fingers. It’s bloody hard work dealing with trying to erase those bad habits on top of the normal lunchtime supervision.
Another trend is the number of dcs who clearly never read at home. Some dcs don’t even know how to hold a book. When you talk to them, you find they are obsessed with their tablets, YouTube etc. What hope has the school got in making these children enthusiastic readers when this is the attitude at home about books?

Oh and DS attended childcare full time from 10 months until he started school (Covid-permitting). It didn’t magically stop his speech delay or fix any of his other needs and it didn’t get us any help or support.

If children at the age appropriate level are in the minority, maybe the expectations of young children need to change.
There is research showing that children, boys in particular, are not ready for school until they are 7. Some countries don't start school until this age and do no worse that countries where children start school aged 4.

This fucking enrages me. So much that I’m swearing.

Where is the support? My kids were all school ready but I had the skills and knowledge to make it happen. Part of that included the knowledge and ability to defer my summer born child. But where is the support for those who need the additonal support? What happened to every child matter and Sure start centres.

Where us the financial investment in HV, SaLT, CAHMS and SEN support? Our local authority rejects a signifigant number of applications for a ECH needs assessments. 98% of those parents take to judicial review are then accepted. It shouldn’t take having to take the LA to court for assessments to be undertaken. Most parents are exhausted with life with a SEN child or don’t have the literacy or cultural capital to feel confident to do it. The goverment are gate keeping the little support that is out there.

He seems to think widened access to childcare will improve things. Presumably because other services will pick up on children who aren’t meeting milestones before starting school.

I thought pre-school/nusury actaully made training my summer born harder not easier as it was easier for them to have them in nappies rather than deal with accidents.

DD1 and DS were young in year - DD1 very young few days before cut off - that had many accidents in reception and even Y1 and school wasn't great about them. Took DD1 getting to uni to get near a diagnosis - ADHD, Dsyslexia and dsypraxia. All the way through school been told she was find and early years were all balme on parenting - well mainly me the mother.

But why should parents need such intensive and expensive support to get the basics done? Why are we treating adults like they’re children themselves?

Have you seen the charges for food when attending the 'free' childcare? It would have cost my DD £35 a day, the nursery wouldn't split the days. It was only when my DD came under different provision and could send in a packed lunch, could my GC attend. I was her childcare up to that point.
Unfortunately my youngest GC had her diagnoses held up during Covid, we went through a terrible time in the school. Even now they don't seem to have any understanding of moderate hearing loss and hypermobility.

Generally it means you teach them basic skills.

using the toilet and wiping
getting dressed/undressed including buttons and zips wtc
using cutlery
hanging up coat and bag
sitting at a table without a screen!
holding a pencil or at least mark marking experience
patience
accepting no!

Basically the things you should be teaching a young child but that don’t always happen as it’s assumed school will.

The push to have neurotypical children parented properly so that they can start school without being significantly behind where they should be is not related to children with genuine disabilities or SEN.

Too many children are being failed and their development is being delayed by parents who are being lazy and holding their children back, and to continue to ignore this problem would be doing them a disservice.

Did he mention Sure Start and their closures having a direct effect on this, because he should have done.

There were 3 SS venues within walking distance of my house when DD was a baby (only one had offices etc). 2 of those have been absorbed into the schools they were based at so can’t be reused.

By the time DD went to school in 2013 their services were cut to the bone and staff were covering multiple jobs ineffectively before being closed. I can’t see how they can rebuild that without the spaces they had and employ all the staff they need again.

This 100%

Children in those countries still go to settings where they are taught exactly the same things as a child in reception here. They just don’t call it school.

All anyone mentions with this is nappies. I’d love to know how many children start reception in nappies all day 🤨

The push to have neurotypical children parented properly so that they can start school without being significantly behind where they should be is not related to children with genuine disabilities or SEN.

Okay but how do they know who is NT or not?

Despite having concerns coming from a family riddled with ND and SEN and a parnet diagnosed it was dismissed as a possiblity till she got to 19 and at uni could she get near any NHS service mainly as schools and GP blocked.

Nephews despite clear signs and school struggling to cope with his behavior and his Dad diagaonsed and mother with family hisory of ADHD won't get near waiting list till he's 7.

In meantime it's blame parenting time.

I know adults who dont meet the criteria. Some of the points are worrying, some are just normal kids stuff. I dont know why we dont push back formal learning and keep things play based for longer.

I think four is too young to start school. My DD3 was still having accidents at four ( before anyone asks, she was in cloth nappies). We just kept on with the cloth training pants, and by four and a half she'd cracked it, and never had a further accident. She then spent the next six months in council nursery five mornings a week to prepare her for school. She then started primary school a week before her fifth birthday, with no problems. I really do think four is too soon for a lot of children.

There is no evidence that starting school at 7 impacts educational outcomes either way, despite people frequently alleging it actually leads to better educational outcomes.

and as a PP said, in most of those counties children are in a formal educational setting prior to 7, equivalent to our reception. In many of those countries 7 is when they’re expected to sit at a desk and listen all day

Im guessing it means they can use the toilet unaided, use cutlery for eating and sit quietly and listen when requested.
I say Im guessing because 25/30 years ago it was virtually unheard of that teachers would be expected to change the nappies of 5 year old because they have never been toilet trained

I get what you’re saying OP.

Obviously some children will be almost a year older than others when they start school.

But absent ND or any other disability / learning disability, they ought to be at least properly toilet trained during the day. Even a kid who has just turned 4 on 31 August should be able to be toilet trained absent the above.

How can they all be in the same place when there is such a growing discrepancy between those 'that have and those that have not'?

The current government has done nothing to tackle the Cost of Living Crisis. They have been a total waste of time and space. Clearly MPs are overpaid and have lost all touch with their constituents.

I hate to think what that stupid woman is going to come up with in her November's budget: charging people for end of life care in NHS hospices?

My DS could read fluently and do basic maths when he started school at 4 but was still in pull-ups for medical reasons. Starmer can go fuck himself.