Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

[Kirova]

I get the point he's trying to make, of course, but it seems like a stick to beat parents with (and particularly mothers, of course). There's no sense in saying you want all children to be in the same place when they start school. Apart from anything else, some are nearly a year younger than others in their cohort, so clearly they are not going to be in the same place.

My youngest daughter was born premature, has a significant hearing impairment and various other difficulties. She will soon be two, and while she's doing brilliantly, I doubt she'll be "school-ready" by the government's current definition when she is four.

Not sure what my point is exactly, it just seems like another absurd over-simplification on the theme of failing our children, state of the country, etc.

I’m more concerned about prime ministers starting the job who clearly aren’t PM ready !

Haven’t rtft yet but we have children in years 1&2, even 3, who still can’t sit and listen, who can’t contribute ideas or conversation outside of whatever the latest trend on YouTube or Roblox is, who can’t share, who struggle to sit at the table at lunchtime and who don’t respect adults in school or their own peers.
These are children with no obvious need (and no issues at home reported by parents as I know masking can be an issue in school)
Tbh it’s fairly obvious just by looking at the parents at pick up, some of them don’t even greet their children or are chatting away on their phones.

most well parented, NT, summer born children might find reception a bit tricky, teachers will allow for that, and they usually catch up with their peers by the end of the infants (I’m a summer born myself).

I agree with most of what you have said, articulately the support and the closure of Sure Starts.

Maybe an unpopular opinion so I'll prepare myself for the attacks coming this way....there seems to be a massive increase in the demand for assessments, referrals etc. It's incredibly hard when a family is trying to get support for their child who desperately needs it. But the situation is not being helped by the parents jumping on a bandwagon and pushing for a diagnosis so that they can get a benefits top up. Also, naughty kids and bad parents do exist. The child doesn't always need a diagnosis, they might just need a good role model and/or firmer parents who are better at parenting.

I too find it very hard to believe that children routinely enter secondary school, not toilet trained.

but if there is nothing “wrong” with them they won’t get a diagnosis. They’ll simply wait 8 years on the waiting list to be told all is fine.

unless you’re indicating medical professional misdiagnose or find every child put in front of them to be ND?

And who were children in lockdown with for months and months? Their parents, mostly. Parents who should have potty-trained them, taught them how to wash their hands, brush their teeth, tie laces, basic language skills and a little reading. Why do people have children if they can't be bothered to even try doing these things? NT children should be able to learn these things if their parents put in the effort with them. Parents' responsibilities shouldn't be abdicated to teachers.

Your specific circumstances aren't what Kier Starmer is referring to, so try not to take it personally. He's talking generally, not specifically about you.

I haven't heard first hand what he said but perhaps he could have shown empathy even if he does need to get the difficult message out there, by caveating it with "I recognise there are many challenging family stories, but we need many more children to be school-ready". Starmer is a father, he isn't a completely heartless person, but he does need to tackle some of these challenging national issues headlong, even if it makes him unpopular.

I'm not convinced that back in my day, 80's, all kids were toilet trained then either. There were a few kids who would wet themselves in junior school and the odd poo-y pants incident. It's seared into my brain.

I don't remember back far enough for infant school.

I am visibly working class. My style is definitely more Towie than Made in Chelsea!
I am also well educated and have a decent professional job. I did have my kids young and was judged for it, which is perhaps why I am particularly sensitive to the previous comment.
I remember being fully aware that when out and about, in my casual clothes, with my young children, many people assumed I was thick. We also have a nice car out the front so maybe the neighbours think we are drug dealers.
Judge me all you want for having children young and making different life choices, but please don’t assume I am illiterate or uneducated because I am working class.

Regarding children coming to school without the basic skills, as an ex-teacher, I wholeheartedly agree with this. We have the kids from neglected families who are sat on screens all day, and then we have the kids who have been ‘gentle parented’. They are equally problematic but I have found more success with the lazy parents than the other ones.

The poorer parents may not have had a great time at school themselves so some are hostile towards our suggestions of help, others are extremely grateful as they want the best for their children and are delighted to be shown how to do that. Those who proudly ‘gentle parent’, well, there’s not much we can do about those as they’ve made a conscious decision to ensure their children are the centre of the universe. These tend to be the ones who are desperate for the SEN label rather than admit they might need to look at their parenting.

This is pretty much exactly what I mean, but you've phrased it much better than I did! He could acknowledge there's an issue which needs to be addressed without sounding exasperated about it. I'm sure it's not what he meant, but he made it sound like he was sick and tired of the children who present as "not school-ready".

We've debated this to death on here and I think most people are in agreement with him.

The consensus here has always seemed to be that unless a child has a specific medical or SEN issue, they should not be starting school in nappies - because that's the crux of it, right? Staff being told they must change nappies?

It didn't used to happen but now it's happening more and more. Whether we like it or not, most cases are not due to anything but parents not preparing kids for school.

I mean, if you did a broad survey you would find working class people cannot spell as well as middle class people. And probably that middle class people don’t have as wide a vocabulary as upper class people. And so on. Not because you’re thicker the poorer you are, or because your parents did a certain job, but because money is nearly always used to buy education. This isn’t remotely controversial.

A person who writes an eloquent post with correct spelling probably speaks similarly in real life, and as such I don’t think people will listen and judge based on assumptions about education.

I think you’re right. More and more parents are delegating their responsibilities to schools.

He's actually complimenting her if you'd like to climb down off your high horse. He's saying that despite how she feels about herself and how she thinks others might see her, that she comes across really well.

And before anyone jumps at me for saying that, I had a brilliant track record of identifying the children coming up from Reception who were undiagnosed, versus those who needed boundaries. Some of these children from either category, especially at 5 and 6, often present in the same way.
I fully accept many teachers get it wrong and want to blame parents rather than consider SEN, especially with quiet non-disruptive children.
But some of us do know what we are doing and there are more and more children who present as having additional needs, but actually what they need is a secure relationship with an adult who is clearly in charge of the environment, and has firm boundaries.

This years starters were born sept 20 - aug 21. They were burn after the major lockdowns and during the year of tiers etc.

what has that got to do with them learning skills as toddlers and beyond?

But they're clogging up the system and making the wait longer for everyone else.

She comes across “middle class” which is, unbelievably, not the same as “really well”

being called middle class isn’t a compliment either

Yes this is undeniably true. However a what, one hour assessment to be told your child doesn’t have ND isn’t actually much “system drain” - they won’t get any other NHs/ LA support with no diagnosis
although I agree, I’d rather they hadn’t taken it at all of course

Yes - and, as PPs keep telling those of you with disabled/delayed children, school staff would be better placed to observe additional needs if they weren't changing half the class's nappies, running after bolters and breaking up fights.

That would free up some time for them to support the kids who actually need it.
You should be welcoming anything that gets the majority of children ready for the learning environment to a functional standard.

Same for the parents of kids with advanced skills - they, too, are being ignored thanks to the demands of inadequately parented children.

They aren't expecting children like yours to be ready. There's obvious medical causes.
It's children who have spent their early years largely sat infront of screens and ignored who are the concern. It's generally very easy to tell these sorts of parents apart from the concerned parents of children with natural developmental delays too.

Interesting you say that.

we all know attachment disorder present very similarly to ND type disorders. I have often wondered if attachment difficulties are borne from children using screens so much for comfort from a younger age now a days and that’s what we are seeing?

I agree with him.

I was an eyfs TA for 12 years, I left 2 years ago. During those 12 years my role changed significantly from helping set up activities, helping with phonics, group work, reading etc. to more and more things like helping at the toilet, sitting with children behavioural issues, helping children get dressed. Children would cry if I gently encouraged them to try and put their own shoes on, cry if I tried to explain how to wipe their own bum rather than do it for them. This was not the case when I first started.

My school was lucky to have enough TAs to do this stuff, many schools don't. Each member of staff dealing with changing a nappy, is one less child read with that day.

Kindly, you have to not take it personally OP. Teachers, schools, unions, politicians will all make broad statements about the whole school population that obviously won't apply to children with SEND (I have one!). Unfortunately the demise of Surestart has really impacted the early intervention and it's come at a time when screen use is exploding.

Schools know the difference between children with genuine needs and those who ought to be ready but aren't. You're in for a long ride with parenthood if you don't take it less personally.

If only he had anything to do with investing hey?! 🙄

I'm "sick and tired" of politicians ignoring actual problems and refusing to invest in anything remotely worthwhile and then moaning about the outcome tbh!