Page 5 | To wonder why we can’t have a points based entry system like Australia?

Backonland · 2025-09-26T19:38:09+00:00

Why can’t we be like Australia and only allow people in who will contribute to society, either by bringing wealth with them or a qualification or skill that we need in the country. Im not being goady, I genuinely do not understand why we can’t adopt the same approach? Surely that would be the sensible way forward and appease most people?

YelloDaisy · 28/09/2025 09:20

Fees are probably much less than paying for health care and schooling in their own country or why would they come.

Pharazon · 28/09/2025 09:21

EmeraldRoulette · 26/09/2025 22:35

Isn't the linked jobs list more important?

So here's just one example under "skilled Visa". Hopefully someone can tell me if I've interpreted this correctly. But you could apply for this Visa and open up a betting shop (for example). I think a lot of this is about whether you want the UK to be an overcrowded hub for business. Personally, I was a lot happier when it wasn't. And I would argue that quality of life was a lot higher when it wasn't.

I fully appreciate this is a democratic decision and some people absolutely love this, what we have now - it's the whole "somewheres" versus "anywheres" a thing again, as per David Goodhart. I'm definitely a "somewhere". I've left London and now I'm just scared that the new place is gonna turn into anywhere.

I think when people talk about a points based system, they are thinking of jobs in essential occupations. I'm not sure if it's under this list, but I've also seen hairdresser, arts therapy, social media manager.

I myself have a contact who was on a specific work Visa from America. She decided she didn't want to do the job anymore. And she's decided to actually pack in that line of work so she's going to be applying for marketing manager roles.

She managed to get her Visa amended. I don't understand how. There are loads of out of work marketing people here. She originally came in on a specific job role with a specific skill, being the link between the American branch of the organisation in the London one.

So her living here should've been linked up to the job.

Anyway, here's the list, I did have another one which you could view in alphabetical order and it was hard to find something that wasn't on it!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-occupations-and-codes

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I guess you are talking about the start-up and innovator route which requires an initial investment of £50k? The criteria for this are pretty tough and opening a bookies or barbers isn’t going to pass. More details here: https://www.gov.uk/innovator-founder-visa

Pharazon · 28/09/2025 09:31

OhDear111 · 27/09/2025 23:58

@NapoleonsToe That is a government list. It says betting shop managers. It doesn’t say you are opening a betting shop yourself! You can if you get the licence etc!

I don’t see getting shop managers on the temporary shortage list. Can you link? The TSL is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-temporary-shortage-list/skilled-worker-visa-temporary-shortage-list

The skilled worker visa is sponsored by the way. You can’t apply for it yourself, your prospective employer, which must be an approved sponsor, has to do it on your behalf.

Baital · 28/09/2025 09:35

YelloDaisy · 28/09/2025 09:20

Fees are probably much less than paying for health care and schooling in their own country or why would they come.

Because it is safer here, there are more opportunities etc

A friend came via this route 3 or 4 years ago. He is a qualified social worker, and got a job in Children and Families social work because there aren't enough British applicants. He has just been promoted. Does a great job supporting children in the care system.

OhDear111 · 28/09/2025 09:35

@Pharazon I just read the previous link. Look at that. No doubt betting firms sponsor if they need to.

Pharazon · 28/09/2025 09:44

OhDear111 · 28/09/2025 09:35

@Pharazon I just read the previous link. Look at that. No doubt betting firms sponsor if they need to.

That is just the list of all occupation codes. It doesn’t tell you which occupations are currently on the shortage list. The current shortage list is this one: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-temporary-shortage-list/skilled-worker-visa-temporary-shortage-list

As you can see it is much shorter than the list you linked to.

CandleMug · 28/09/2025 09:44

verybighouseinthecountry · 28/09/2025 05:22

I don't agree with this at all. I'm in circles where people are unpaid carers due to having a child with a disability. Care work is popular for those who cannot work even traditional part time hours. Agencies are crying out for workers, training can often be a few online videos and then you are in. I know several mums who do ad hoc 12 hour shifts a few times a month and a single mum of 5 who only does school hours 3 days per week.

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A few ad hoc hours doesn’t make for a reliable income though does it? Fine if you have a partner with a main wage and you just need some extra spending money, fair enough if you can find an agency or the like that will say yes no problem, you work 10-2 Monday - Friday.

Realistically it doesn’t work like that, because as I said, cars work is 24/7. Imagine those working and having to do all different shifts under the sun, early mornings, late evenings, weekends, night shifts…it becomes problematic when their colleagues are doing 10-2 M-F. Those shifts will be the easiest to cover as everyone will want them!

To add, you need a support network in order to do hours outside of school hours if you have kids. Yes that’s are plenty of available hours no doubt but you don’t have anyone to look after your kids then you can’t work them. I’m not sure what part of that you disagree with, it’s not an opinion it’s a basic fact.

verybighouseinthecountry · 29/09/2025 14:07

CandleMug · 28/09/2025 09:44

A few ad hoc hours doesn’t make for a reliable income though does it? Fine if you have a partner with a main wage and you just need some extra spending money, fair enough if you can find an agency or the like that will say yes no problem, you work 10-2 Monday - Friday.

Realistically it doesn’t work like that, because as I said, cars work is 24/7. Imagine those working and having to do all different shifts under the sun, early mornings, late evenings, weekends, night shifts…it becomes problematic when their colleagues are doing 10-2 M-F. Those shifts will be the easiest to cover as everyone will want them!

To add, you need a support network in order to do hours outside of school hours if you have kids. Yes that’s are plenty of available hours no doubt but you don’t have anyone to look after your kids then you can’t work them. I’m not sure what part of that you disagree with, it’s not an opinion it’s a basic fact.

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The thread isn't about single parents needing a regular income. The context is that we have a massive shortage of carers. The women I know doing it chose it for the flexibility. You can do regular shifts, shift patterns, bank work. The mum of 5 is a single mum with no support system, she gets UC top up.

JHound · 29/09/2025 14:43

YelloDaisy · 28/09/2025 09:17

Britain has to pretend to be inclusive and kind and any tom dick or harry can come here and stay - sadly this will probably lead to Farage as PM - the difference is Australia doesn't allow boat people.

They allow a tonne of other migrants though. And some arrive on one visa and simply stay illegally.

Boat arrivals were a tiny proportion of all immigrant numbers in Oz (legal and otherwise).

JHound · 29/09/2025 14:47

groovergirl · 27/09/2025 10:11

Australian here, calling from Melbourne, which is now our largest city (5mil+). This might seem like the promised land, but there is a disjunct between the federal govt's bringing in 1000 immigrants a day (and 1.1 million immigrants in 2023-24) and the various state govts' having to provide the services and infrastructure to cope with the influx.

We can't keep up. There's no money for public housing. The homelessness crisis is appalling. Caravan parks used to offer a decent standard of living for low-income earners; this year, a new law is booting those residents off their sites, with nowhere to go. In Castlemaine, a pretty goldfields town where (incidentally) Germaine Greer lives now, local workers are camping out in tents because landlords prefer to AirBnB their properties rather than rent to long-term tenants.

In Melbourne's inner-east, where I live and walk around, many residences are empty. They're owned by foreigners who use Australian real estate as a safe place to park their money. There's no law against this. Occasionally I'm tailed by security guards who find it scandalous that I should walk on a public road past their gates or park my Toyota nearby. In certain suburbs, and particularly in the catchments of certain public (taxpayer-funded) high schools that sell off places to foreign students, agents discourage buyers who are not of a certain race.

I do like it here, but that's because I'm established and a home-owner. When my compatriots cry because they have nowhere to live, when they say they feel like second-class citizens in their own country, I wish we could put a brake on immigration.

Our federal govt is in thrall to lobbyists of all kinds. And it's all to one aim -- to boost the wealth of a few against the well-being of the rest of us.

I am surprised that Melbourne has now overtaken Sydney! I only left Oz a few years ago and it was still Sydney then.

The housing issue and foreign investors was still an issue then and I always marvelled
at how reluctant Australian politicians were to do anything about the housing market.

JHound · 29/09/2025 14:49

RubySquid · 27/09/2025 10:32

It's not a " skilled" job. So shouldn't be on a skilled workers visa. Tell me if I was a care worker and applied to another country to do that which one would let me in as a " skilled" worker?? Canada Australia New Zealand??? EU? Doubt it

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Childcare workers on the skills shortage list in Australia.

JHound · 29/09/2025 14:52

EasternStandard · 27/09/2025 07:54

Yep their system is tough and they have a policy on asylum that is different again. Despite all the brick bats some are flinging, the op would probably be happier with the same.

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I didn’t find their system particularly tough.

Two years to PR
Four years to become a citizen

And both Australia and the UK allows asylum.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 14:57

JHound · 29/09/2025 14:52

I didn’t find their system particularly tough.

Two years to PR
Four years to become a citizen

And both Australia and the UK allows asylum.

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You don’t think their approach to asylum is tougher at all - Nauru, turn backs?

Do we have the same here, and if not would you like it to be the same?

JHound · 29/09/2025 14:59

MotherPuppr · 27/09/2025 02:18

Appreciate that question wasn’t directed to me but in Australia, if you lose your job (the job that gave you sufficient points to get the visa) you have 60 days to get a new one or you and your dependants need to leave the country, and yes they enforce it. Yes it’s harsh.

I wanted to resign and take up a new job. It was a job where I’d be earning the equivalent of +150k (gbp) which I mention for context. But both employers and I would have been required to go to their version of the home office and apply for a transfer of my visa, which is a lot of headache and new employer agreed they’d hold the post until I got my equivalent of ILR (and no longer needed the visa).

I think the issue is that the UKs PBS has too low an income requirement, doesn’t require significant enough contributory requirements (towards school fees, a requirement to have private health insurance for each family dependant, etc) and that once you’re in the country, they don’t bother to kick you out if your circumstances change.

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It doesn’t really “kick people out” that intensely or you wouldn’t have Working Holiday Visa overstayers or other groups of illegal immigrants.

A lot of people on visas who lose their jobs tend to be highly skilled / higher paid migrants and would simply leave without action needing to be taken.

There is a lot of myth making about the Australian system.

JHound · 29/09/2025 15:03

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 14:57

You don’t think their approach to asylum is tougher at all - Nauru, turn backs?

Do we have the same here, and if not would you like it to be the same?

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The immigration system is more than simply the tiny minority that sought to arrive by boat, no.

They still allow asylum, still have asylum seekers and still have exceptionally high immigrant numbers and immigrants as a proportion of the population.

But no I did not think a system that gave me permanent residency in 2 years and a passport in 4 was particularly tough.

JHound · 29/09/2025 15:10

RubySquid · 28/09/2025 04:26

My stepmom migrated to the UK . As did my best friend. Stepmum went through naturalization process and gained a British passport. Mixes with people of all nationalities not just a small group of people that came from where she was originally from. Paid taxes and had no state help for night on 40 years I til she retired and got state pension

Best friend came here actually from a European country but before the EU actually exisited. Married to British guy for years, worked l tull time. , never had kids so not taking from the state that way. Kept original Belgian nationality but doesn't hold a passport at mo as not been outside the UK for over 10 years. No interest in Belgium which she hasnt considered " home" for 40 years plus

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So you don’t anybody who has come recently. Only decades ago hence you don’t know that we have a points based system.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 16:15

JHound · 29/09/2025 15:03

The immigration system is more than simply the tiny minority that sought to arrive by boat, no.

They still allow asylum, still have asylum seekers and still have exceptionally high immigrant numbers and immigrants as a proportion of the population.

But no I did not think a system that gave me permanent residency in 2 years and a passport in 4 was particularly tough.

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Yes it is but you seem to be avoiding answering. Do you think that policy is tougher and would you like it here?

JHound · 29/09/2025 17:26

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 16:15

Yes it is but you seem to be avoiding answering. Do you think that policy is tougher and would you like it here?

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I don’t think their immigration policy is particularly tougher than others. I have said that thrice now.

We more or less have similar immigration policies, except Australia accepts much higher numbers as a proportion of its population which, while I have no issue with that I acknowledge most Britons would object to an immigrant population of 30%.

You seem fixated on only one tiny part of the Australian system of migration (attempted boat arrivals) which is different to how the UK reacts and is tougher but I don’t care about boat arrivals (I think more safe routes should be possible in both the UK and Australia).

But the thread is not about undocumented boat arrivals but immigration as a whole and whether the UK has a points system,

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 17:35

JHound · 29/09/2025 17:26

I don’t think their immigration policy is particularly tougher than others. I have said that thrice now.

We more or less have similar immigration policies, except Australia accepts much higher numbers as a proportion of its population which, while I have no issue with that I acknowledge most Britons would object to an immigrant population of 30%.

You seem fixated on only one tiny part of the Australian system of migration (attempted boat arrivals) which is different to how the UK reacts and is tougher but I don’t care about boat arrivals (I think more safe routes should be possible in both the UK and Australia).

But the thread is not about undocumented boat arrivals but immigration as a whole and whether the UK has a points system,

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I think you’re avoiding the question on that part of their policy. Idk why tbh

It’s obvious it’s tougher than here, turn backs and Nauru. I’m not sure why it’s impossible to say so.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 29/09/2025 17:35

I know the answer to this! Because they have secure borders 😊

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 17:42

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 29/09/2025 17:35

I know the answer to this! Because they have secure borders 😊

They do.

JHound · 29/09/2025 17:45

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 17:35

I think you’re avoiding the question on that part of their policy. Idk why tbh

It’s obvious it’s tougher than here, turn backs and Nauru. I’m not sure why it’s impossible to say so.

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I answered it again. You seem to think not having an answer you like is not an answer.

I don’t care about boat arrivals so don’t have any specific view beyond beyond what I said. Thrice
I don’t have an issue with off shore processing and think there should be more safe routes for those wanting to claim asylum (I do think
processing should be a lot quicker.)

But I don’t share your obsession with a tiny subset of arrivals when the thread isn’t even about that. And my experience is no, the system isn’t particularly tougher.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 17:49

JHound · 29/09/2025 17:45

I answered it again. You seem to think not having an answer you like is not an answer.

I don’t care about boat arrivals so don’t have any specific view beyond beyond what I said. Thrice
I don’t have an issue with off shore processing and think there should be more safe routes for those wanting to claim asylum (I do think
processing should be a lot quicker.)

But I don’t share your obsession with a tiny subset of arrivals when the thread isn’t even about that. And my experience is no, the system isn’t particularly tougher.

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I was just after a yes or no to are they tougher and would you like it here. It seems amongst the other stuff it’s a yes to tougher and no to here.

JHound · 29/09/2025 17:51

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 17:49

I was just after a yes or no to are they tougher and would you like it here. It seems amongst the other stuff it’s a yes to tougher and no to here.

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I said three times “no, I don’t find their system particularly tougher”

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 17:55

JHound · 29/09/2025 17:51

I said three times “no, I don’t find their system particularly tougher”

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Again I asked about the asylum policy which you said was tougher and you don’t want it here. It’s fine, in between the other stuff you did answer.