Teacher asked who chose the pink bottle....

[Caszekey]

Ok, so it's more aibu to allow / encourage this behaviour.
Fairly identifiable so here goes.
5 year olds twin boys, both have long hair like their Dad which I put up for school. Ones favourite colour is pink. Both adore Frozen so wanted the dress up dresses (Kristoff is a minor character). Last WBD they dressed as Goldilocks and Red Riding Hood (bear, wolves are minor characters). School have jokingly passed comment previously about pink bobbles etc but today I was asked, incidentally, if I chose the pink bottles or them, do I pick costumes etc.
I don't know if she's curious or implying I'm doing something wrong but it's got me second guessing

The choices are child led and I reckon they'll age out of them but I don't want to pull the "boys don't do that" line when girls have so much fun.

So aibu to allow them to pick so freely ? We've not yet encountered a request for a dress for general living, just they like to be Princesses!

Mmm... I've only ever dressed up as animals or male characters. Not sure what that says about me 😆

But I wouldn't care if my daughter wanted to dress up as a male character. The societal double standard means I would have niggles about letting a son go as a female character but I'd let him. I don't see the fundamental difference or the issue with it. I would explain to both that some people might have an issue with it but it's their decision.

Euan Montagu, Johnny Bevan and Hester Legatt are drag/gender bending?

Nope. They're actors who are pretending to be something else. All are played entirely straight as the character's gender. Hester is a woman, Bevan and Monty are men. The creators have really interesting accounts of why they chose to have the characters played by actors of the opposite sex - and particularly how that affects how the Montagu character is received.

Now do the Wizard of Oz. Assume that it's also banned in your house? After all there's a guy pretending to be an actual lion, and some bad lions have hurt people.

I didn't buy it for him. I had bought it for his older sister when she was a baby and as I said he inherited some of her clothes because I didn't want to just get rid of them.

Having said that I did buy some blue clothes as well when dd was a baby because I got fed up of all the pink and white stuff. And my friends and relatives from outside the UK gave us clothes in all kinds of colours. (Including black and brown. I have to say dd looked adorable in her black sleepsuit but yeah, even i thought that brown doesn't really suit babies..I still used the brown sleepsuit because I hate waste and also.. who cares)

I also think this strong association with colour and sex is a uniquely British thing at least it's not something that I have seen so strongly practiced and adhered to in the few other countries I have lived in.

Do you not think that by allowing them to choose their interests and clothes freely they are less likely to think they must be a girl trapped in a boy's body?

I’d be really curious to know whether you have subconsciously “othered” boyish stuff in your effort to be non-conformist? Your boys’ likes seem to be quite restricted to girls stuff which doesn’t seem normal to me. My boys have always had a liking for both dolls and cars, favourite colours are orange and purple rather than anything to do with “blue” or “pink”.

And the school shouldn’t judge them if they DO just like pink, but maybe they are also curious whether you are pushing the choice a little hard or if it comes from the child?

Though would they ask the same question of a “tomboy” girl, I’m not so sure. In short, it’s complex and maybe needs some reflection.

That is a noverly dramatic way of putting it. Just to be clear, I never asked to be dressed like a female rat, but I know for a fact that if I had, my mother would have not allowed. And now that I am an adult with the benefit of hindsight I would see how that would have been the right choice.

Serious point, among the lions and pirates: raising children who can't reliably tell the difference between make believe and reality is a great deal more damaging and problematic than raising kids who don't fully sign up to locally-applicable gender stereotypes.

It brings back memories of Mumsnet when Elsa first hit the screen, thread after thread about every DS and his Elsa dresses.

Personally I wouldn't allow my DS wear an Elsa dress, or watch the movies, not that he'd want too, there is enough things influencing gender confusion in the world.

Exactly. I'd be worried about my kids being in school with Newwasps kid than yours
Who's gonna be the bully picking on kids who's differences frighten them? Not mine.

I don't think your wrong but shouldn't we be pushing back on this stick to beat mums with?

Gender non-conforming kids - mum's fault for pushing an ideology. Autism diagnosis - mum's fault for taking painkillers (obs nonsense) or the old thing about 'cold' mothers (worse nonsense).

It all just feels like an excuse for misogyny. It's all our fault apparently

Why? How would dressing up as an animal been a problem? Apologies, I genuinely don't now. It seems unfathomable that someone would actually think that dressing as something makes you want to be that which is the only reason I can think of.

First post gets it right!

DS1 used to wear a tutu to parties, was delighted when his nursery teacher did his hair in Elsa braids and loved that he had purple glittery shoes (that he chose). Now at almost 7 he wears t shirts with science facts on them, has a collosal amount of Lego and would be horrified at the idea of wearing pink (although he still likes his hair long). I don't see any harm in following their interests while they have them, whether that's glitter or volcanoes.

Is it a new term and teacher? If so she doesn't know your kids yet but she will get to in time and she'll see for herself what books / toys etc they choose when left to their own devices. And the rate they go through water bottles. Then she will hopefully chill out.

I do think she was possibly asking for safeguarding reasons, to check you aren't steering them for your own motivations. That's better than her thinking she's helping by trying to steer / affrim them.

Does dad with long hair do pick ups, so she can see you just aren't a gender stereotype family. Wanting to be like daddy at 5 is fairly standard. As is just not liking having your hair cut. I'm in my 40s and still hate it.

I can assure you I have more Marvel dress up costumes than Princess, and more cars than dolls. They live in joggers at home and their wardrobe is typically boy.

Why wouldnt you allow him to watch the movies? I normally dont like animated movies but frozen is brilliant and the songs are beautiful. I mean seriously why can't he watch Frozen? Can he watch anything with leading female characters? What else can't he do because of this insanity? Did you also hide from him the fact that we had a queen for 70 years or 2 women prime ministers. Has he heard of Marie Curie?

(Also sincere apologies if I totally misunderstood you or you just made a typo. Please tell me he was allowed to watch frozen)

Look, either gender and biology are immutable or they're not.

If they're completely linked and natural, we don't need to police them. Masculine and maleness will link automatically, as will femininity and femaleness.

IF they're not natural, we should let people be whoever the fuck they are and butt out. Because it means there IS no link and therefore we're all non-binary in our own individual way.

My god the comments on this have been a wild ride. My son is nearly 4, loves Elsa, loves pink, has the same pinky/purple trainers as his sister. Has the princess dresses, wore a princess dress to meet a princess in Disney. All his choice. Imagine thinking a small child will be ostracised for 'being girly'. If someone is gonna judge my child for wearing a princess dress then I don't want them in his/our life to be quite honest.

A movie about true love not being about romance and sex, that family matters, with a cool brave guy who helps out a woman without any expectations, that has a central message about handling your emotions not locking them away, would cause your child gender confusion??

OH NO NOT A FEMALE PROTAGONIST SEEING A GIRL IN A LEADING ROLE AND IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY WILL WARP THEM FOR LIFE.

Make sure you burn all copies of the Hunger Games in your local library. I'd hate to think what a story about a female protagonist who overthrows an oppressive regime would do to your DS. He might end up thinking women are of equal value or something

The choices are child led and I reckon they'll age out of them but I don't want to pull the "boys don't do that" line when girls have so much fun.

Child led my arse! Children can only choose from what they are exposed to.

It is fairly obvious both your boys being into "girls fun" is because your young sons don't know how boys can be fun, creative and adventurous too. Quite sad they are not being exposed to strong male role models or characters as well as female - this stuff really matters if they are going to grow up balanced equals.

If the kids want to play with dresses at school/play groups etc, no problem. All kids do that and it's a phase. But I would not be encouraging the love of girly things at home. Should it matter? No. Does it matter? Yes. You are the parent and should not be encouraging behaviour that could set them up for bullying in the future. You sound way too liberal.

It's becoming increasingly clear from this thread that people have been spending way too much time educating their kids on gender stereotypes, at the expense of making sure they and their children really understand the difference between "real" and "pretend".

I'll admit that "strong female lead characters with boys in supporting roles will make my child confused about their gender" was slightly more bonkers than I'd expected though....

I don't think the child would be the one with the gender confusion in this case. It would be the mums.

Not a new teacher, eldest is 10 and she knows us pretty well for several reasons
She's also aware Dad has hair longer than me.

To whoever queried not asking the boys before I brought water bottles, no. Seriously, you'd never buy a water bottle without your child's consent? They all want these fancy spray ones. Or would have a meltdown trying to choose between Minecraft like big bro or Frozen or there would only be one of a certain style they both want.

It's a practical item. They get brought as needed. I needed two. They were cheap. They aren't offensive. If a kid calls them a name for having a pink bottle I expect school to deal with it, not me walk around on eggshells trying to appease the whole school