Teacher asked who chose the pink bottle....

[Caszekey]

Ok, so it's more aibu to allow / encourage this behaviour.
Fairly identifiable so here goes.
5 year olds twin boys, both have long hair like their Dad which I put up for school. Ones favourite colour is pink. Both adore Frozen so wanted the dress up dresses (Kristoff is a minor character). Last WBD they dressed as Goldilocks and Red Riding Hood (bear, wolves are minor characters). School have jokingly passed comment previously about pink bobbles etc but today I was asked, incidentally, if I chose the pink bottles or them, do I pick costumes etc.
I don't know if she's curious or implying I'm doing something wrong but it's got me second guessing

The choices are child led and I reckon they'll age out of them but I don't want to pull the "boys don't do that" line when girls have so much fun.

So aibu to allow them to pick so freely ? We've not yet encountered a request for a dress for general living, just they like to be Princesses!

Surely OPs approach is best when it comes to not wanting to ‘intentionally trans children’, isn’t saying certain things are ‘only for boys’ or ‘only for girls’ part of that kind of ideology?

But why would you deny them a choice over something as utterly harmless as a fancy dress costume or a hair bobble?! Nobody’s saying kids should have a choice over what time they go to bed or how many sweets they can eat or whether they put a seat belt on. I’m sure the OP tells her kids ‘no’ over the shit that actually matters, but the colour of a fucking hair band does not fall into that category because it’s inconsequential fluff.

When I was a little kid we had child size mugs with different animals on them and whenever my mum made me a cup of tea (another thing that makes Mumsnet collectively clutch its pearls, but nobody gave a toss about giving kids caffeine in 1980) she used to say ‘Fox cup or badger cup?’ Letting a kid choose their own hair bobble isn’t any more undisciplined than that. Jeez.

They're not generalisations, they're Western based stereotypes. Perfume use amongst men is much higher in Turkey than Scandinavia. Shopping for pleasure will very much be linked with wealth, and the socialisation of women as home makers.

There's Turkish Barber Shops popping up here 10 a penny to do all that pamper stuff and male makeup is a cultural norm in South Korea. In India and Africa not shaving armpits is normal and increasingly Gen Z are rebelling against naked armpits!

As for hunting etc., data is gathered with socialogical bias. Confirmation bias isn't it? The more they research the more they see the role women played in hunting.

Gender conditioning can be intense. One of my sons was teased in P1 for having a Frozen lunchbag. 'That's a girls' film.' It just had Olaf on it, for pity's sake!

A friend of another son came into the kitchen from the garden one day and asked for a glass of water. I gave him a pink beaker without thinking anything of it, and he refused to touch it...

That's what worries me, really. You just wouldn't get that recoil, that reaction, from a girl. It's the notion which is somehow inculcated into boys that the 'feminine' is lesser/risible/pitiful, and must be rejected and repudiated.

10 - 15 years ago this would not have been an issue at all. In the good old days sensible people knew that gender stereotypes were there to be broken and had nothing to do with biological sex. Now the danger is that an adult or older child will plant ideas in your children’s heads, or your head, about wrong bodies, and try to put them onto the conveyor belt towards the medicalisation meat grinder. Keep reinforcing to your boys that they can choose the toys and clothes and friends they like and that this does not mean that they are not boys, because what makes them boys is that they have ‘healthy boy bodies’. Be careful though. Gender ideology is so very dangerous and the consequences of social and medical transition can be utterly horrific.

This thread is insane. Talking about "transing" kids just because they like things that are typically seen as girly? Talking about telling 5 year olds that bad men dress up as women to do bad things?? Has society lost its fucking mind that we are at the point that little children can't explore and figure out the world without grown ups making up big scary monsters and shaming them out of being themselves? Have you not ever heard the phrase "don't be your child's first bully"? We should be teaching children to be open and accepting of differences, not throwing buzz words at them and frightening them into being just like everyone else.

I can't believe in 2025 it needs to be said that boys can like pink and Frozen and dressing up! It's like saying a girl must like pink, must like make up, must like being a mummy - why can't these stereotypes die and we just let people live? Fucking hell this thread is so depressing.

You think men don’t like perfume? Why are there a million counters filled with men’s fragrance in every department store, then? Men have always worn fragrance, for literally hundreds of years. It’s literally never been just a women’s thing.

If men don’t do anything beauty related, why do Turkish barbershops do a service that’s essentially a full pore-cleansing facial? Why do men go for male waxing services? Many men have their eyebrows shaped, get their teeth whitened, use skincare etc. Loads of men dye their hair, use scalp treatments etc too.

Also, loads of men like shopping. Loads of men are into clothes, books, music etc and will happily spend hours shopping for them.

And FYI, women only started shaving their armpits very recently (and in many countries, much more recently than in the UK - I can remember German and Italian pop stars in the 1980s having unshaven armpits) so it has bugger all to do with the hunter-gatherer theory.

I agree pink is just a colour and if they want to dress up as a female character so what? it’s a character

If it’s child led there is no problem with it!
My 5 year old has costume dresses as well as boy costumes! He wanted a Jessie from Toy Story costume which is a dress despite in the film she wears trousers (annoying!!)
Whilst he didn’t opt for any of these for WBD (wanted to be Supertato) I wouldn’t have a problem with it if he did.

There is such a double standard on this because we don’t question girls dressing or playing with stereotypically boy stuff.

Everyone knew where this thread was going to lead.

"few generalisations - Why do women like perfume and men don't, why do women like shopping and men don't, why do women shave their armpits and men don't, why do women go to beauty salons and there is no such thing for men - the list goes on. We are made differently.. men used to hunt beasts and deliver them to the women to cook. Don't ask me why - these are just things that you can't argue against?"

How come there was an era in history where it was quite the thing for wealthy men throughout quite a bit of Europe to wear long blingy dress coats with loose silk shirts- basically blouses- with hugggge frilly cuffs underneath, frilly cravats, mahoosive curly long bouffy powdered wigs, stockings and heeled shoes with flashy buckles? Is that just instinct?

"Now, there is no way I would allow my son to be dressed up as Goldilocks or a female character of any kind. That is where I draw a line."

So no to Bluey or Bingo but yes to Ubercorn from Go Jetters?

Generalisation. Not a factual accurate statement was mine.

And yet a girl wearing a spider man suit wouldn’t raise any eyebrows.

Oh thank goodness, I thought it was only me that had very stereotypical boy/girl children despite being very laid back with toys and colours but my DS was just obsessed with cars from being tiny and found Frozen boring despite my same age niece’s obsession with it. When my DD came along, even though it was a car heavy household, she wanted the dolls to look after and play pretend “house” and even though she will wear her brother’s old clothes, she much prefers anything pink and sparkly.

OP, I don’t think you are doing anything wrong but my DS, who is 4 now, his only goal is to have friends and to fit in. I would just be aware that some of their choices may make them a target for bullies in the future. It’s fine for now but I’d be worrying that instead of giving them confidence to wear whatever they want, they will be teased and ostracised for being different. My sister was “lightly” bullied in primary school and it’s massively affected her confidence and self esteem even in her 30’s.

BS.

If your notion of gender is so fragile a little bit of fabric or nail varnish is enough to disrupt it, I think you should question if it is actually natural or not.

Stereotypical boys and girls are fine. Non-stereotypical boys and girls are fine. Extrovert children who want friends are fine, introvert children who prefer their own company/solo play are fine.

All of us only have one life to live. Let others enjoy their self-expression in their own way.

If blue for girls or pink for girls is triggering, you REALLY need to have something else to focus your attention on.

I have a 9yo boy he's wonderful, he totally a boy, knows he's a boy. He has long hair, has a hot pink bedroom and enjoys playing girl characters in make believe games. We've been very fortunate that it's only once been questioned by school staff - a lunch time supervisor, in front of a teacher who addressed it as inappropriate with the dinner lady.

It really shouldn't be an issue in this day and age.

I think we should give children a bit of credit for their ability to navigate these things. My DS has often dressed as female characters for WBD, and I’ve just had some conversations with him to check he’s thought it through, along lines of:

Me: “oh she’s a cool character. Do you think other boys in your class will choose to dress a female characters?”

DS: “no I doubt it thry probably want to be footballers”

Me: “are you ok being the only boy who is a female character ?”

DS: “yeah I don’t mind”

so you don’t have to say “no you can’t wear a dress” or “other kids will pick on you!”, just let them think it through for themselves. They know their peer group and what they feel comfortable with.

Thank you for a level headed response, I work my head off to be politically correct and try to be weighted and balanced in my thoughts. You've hit the nail on the head. Boys and girls are different, as confusing as it may seem.

Here's the thing though - I can say exactly the same about my two kids (well, except for eldest's only aim isn't to make friends, he's very comfortable in himself and doesn't care about popularity) - and mine are two boys.

DS1 - cars, anything with wheels, doesn't care about clothes as long as he's comfortable, buzzcut
DS2 - fluffy toys, pink and sparkly, long hair

Stereotypes exist - sometimes because of an innate inclination (girls are smaller) sometimes because of societal pressure (boys wear blue) - but they're not required, let kids be kids and like what they like.

Oh, and regarding bullying - I'm fucked if I'm going to let potential future jerks constrain a child's life!

DS1 got a bit of bullying, and he's the more conventional 'boyish' one. DS2 is the opposite, and has had no issues at all. If I'd made him miserable by telling him he couldn't wear the sparkly leggings to school what would that have done? I wouldn't have prevented anything and I'd have crushed his spirit (and the rest of the world will be there to do that I'm sure).If they choose to change their behaviour (as DS2 did when he got to about 8 and decided to wear a bit less pink and sparkles) that's fine, but I'm not going to break them.

Personally, I'd prefer to have resilient kids who live their lives rather than fearful ones that fall in line in case someone spots them and decides to pick on them for it. Or better still, can judge when it's appropriate to wear the sparkles, and when grey joggers and a hoodie is a better choice.

unless they have an older sister why do they have all the pink dresses and hair accessories to choose from? Do they have any more traditionally male clothes to choose from?

I agree. Funnily enough, DS1 who was all kitted out in fairy dresses now dresses very conventionally. DS2 who never asked for dresses, but did get teased for choosing jeans from the girls aisle of H&M because he liked the colours more, now wears skirts. He's not trans. He's not gay. He just likes skirts, the same way women like wearing trousers, so he does. And why shouldn't he? I despise random and pointless gender restrictions. They are nothing to do with safe spaces. They are a product of narrow minds.

If you read the OP’s posts, you’ll see that yes they have plenty of “more traditionally male” clothes to choose from, which they wear most of the time when they want to.

Couldn’t agree more .