To think that on average women ARE less keen on casual sex? (NB. I have no objections to casual sex if ethical)

[MusettasWaltz]

This isn't a TAAT but it's partly prompted by an AIBU I saw recently where the OP was saying promiscuous men should be shamed. The OP was about my age (19) & seemed somewhat odd, but I was also surprised by a lot of the replies. Many said that women like casual sex just as much as men do, and often appear to like it less anecdotally & in studies because of slut-shaming & other factors. (Some of this might have been a reaction to the OP's stated strong disapproval of casual sex & encouragement of shaming, but most opinions do seem genuine)

I know a lot of cod psychology about women is pretty sexist and inaccurate. But my gut feeling is that on average women probably DO like casual sex less. For one thing, while some promiscuity does have some evolutionary benefit for species like birds, generally it benefits a man more evolutionarily to have casual sex more than it does a woman.

Obvs evopsych isn't the only think motivating people by a long shot, but it does have some truth I think.

Anecdotally, most of my friends are lukewarm at best about it. That could untypical ofc..

(My personal stance is that I could see myself in a casual FWB relationship but wouldn't have a ONS. This is personal, I don't think there's anything intrinsically bad about them so long as people treat each other with respect and aren't too drunk/coerced. Etc)

Curious to know the MN stance. Am I being stupidly old-fashioned? Or is this at least somewhat true?

I think women can like casual sex as much as men, but the sad reality (at least for me) is that women have to take into consideration their personal safety.

I probably would’ve had more casual sex/ONS when I was younger but I was cautious about putting myself into (what I considered) risky situations. I didn’t bring strangers to my house (didn’t want them to know where I lived) and I wouldn’t go to their home after just meeting on a night out. This limited my sexual relationships to people I was dating and “knew”.

I've voted YANBU but I'm not actually sure. As a statistically insignificant individual, I went through promiscuous phases when I certainly enjoyed and, in many ways, preferred casual sex. Other times I wasn't much bothered about sex (am now in an actively avoidant stage!) or I dialled it down because I was wanting emotional connection.

The main point is that it's fine for either sex to enjoy it for its own sake, to experience it as part of a deep relationship, to swear off it altogether - or any combination of the three, as long it fulfils them and doesn't hurt other people.

I'm unconvinced that "all" men just want loads of sex regardless. Men vary as much as women - probably in different proportions, but I've known men who are only interested in sex as part of a meaningful relationship.

Too many cultural factors at play.

In the 60s people used to say that women couldn’t have sex without catching feelings (as they say these days).

I think that one is pretty conclusively disproved.

Yes, I do think definitely think that if surveys specified casual sex as meaning 'FWB no-strings sex with someone safe' they'd get very different answers than if they asked about 'ONS/hookup with a stranger or someone you don't know well'.

Not to mention that an FWB arrangement puts a lot more ONS on the man to make sure the woman enjoys herself than a ONS does.

I'm bisexual myself & if I did have a ONS (though as I've said it's not my thing) I would be much more wary of having one with a man. Obvs there are horrible violent women too, but you've got much more chance of being overpowered by a man. Esp as porn has given so many men warped ideas.
I've seen people advise on here, 'Tell him clearly what you want and don't want.' but the sad reality is that if an man does want to assault a woman, most won't be able to physically stop him.....

Surveys and anecdotally do seem to show women catching feelings more. But you see a lot of conservative content claiming that women 'biologically' automatically bond if they have sex, which seems dubious.

Personally I don't think I could have sex with someone I didn't at least like. But I'm pretty sure I could sleep with someone and not catch feelings.

Surveys and anecdotally do seem to show women catching feelings more. But you see a lot of conservative content claiming that women 'biologically' automatically bond if they have sex, which seems dubious.

Personally I don't think I could have sex with someone I didn't at least like. But I'm pretty sure I could sleep with someone and not catch feelings.

I think on average men probably are more likely to like casual sex. But the whole 'men all want it' is a stereotype, there's plenty of men who don't or might in theory but hold back for one reason or another.

I agree with you.

I love casual sex (when it’s good sex!) but my experience is that as a woman I’m reasonably unusual in this. I do know other women who feel the same, but not many.

When I talk to friends about someone who I’m seeing casually, there is always an underlying assumption that I’ll want this to progress to a serious relationship, moving in together etc.

I don't think it's any kind of deep biological mystery, just logic.

Women have much more to lose in a casual sex encounter: violent men, pregnancy, being pushed into acts, social judgement. And much less to gain: I think it is easier for a man to have a fulfilling sexual experience, whereas sex with a random for a woman has a higher chance of being crap.

These, along with a social history of controlling women's sexual activities, leaves woman less likely to want to engage in casual sex. Not that they are intrinsically less interested in sex

Life stage, libido, limiting factors (safety) are all variables. I think physical safety is a big one.

Plus how likely it is they will actually enjoy it. Typically a man will orgasm when he has sex , even if it’s the first time with a partner. I don’t know the stats but I suspect it’s not nearly so typical for women to orgasm the first time she has sex with someone.

Safety would be the primary reason I wouldn’t be interested.

I think men are more sexually driven than women. This has a biological element of spreading your seed to produce more offspring and a cultural one of being a “stud”.

I also think men have lower standards than women in who, where and when they will have sex.

They don’t have to consider their safety, unwanted pregnancy or the judgement of others.

I have had one intentional one night stand in my youth (back in the 80s) and one other which turned out to be a one night stand although that wasn’t how I went into it as I hoped it would be more.

Life was safer then. At least I didn’t have to worry the blokes in question might be filming me or would stalk me as seems a reasonable possibility these days.

Surely age comes into it?
I had a few ONS in my 20s, as did most of my friends.
I knew one girl at uni who had slept with 100 men by the time she was 20.
For most, this petered out when they approached 30, but to be fair many of them were coupled up by then.
Having said that I know a couple of women aged 50-55 who are divorced and very active on hook up sites, reliving their youth.

I think for a host of reasons it's far less enjoyable and worthy pursuit for lots of women. It would take far more time and energy for me to find someone I found safe attractive and then who could actually make me orgasm/participate in a enjoyable sexual experience. I might as well save myself the hassle and masturbate at home.

Catching feelings wouldn't even be a concern for me.

Unfortunately pornography has taught most men what sex looks like it's something ridiculous like only 20% of porn shows women reaching orgasm and of that it's mostly fake orgasms brought about in unrealistic ways for many women. As a women to have a enjoyable sexual encounter I would need to train the man how I would need him to participate. Men are pretty much guaranteed a orgasm every time.

Yes, all of this. I do think it's telling that surveys show lesbians have higher rates of casual sex & seem to regret it less, though tbf it's not THAT much higher. However, it's probs because most of those risks are either absent or lesser.

I just think it's very hard to measure these things w the confounding factors you mmentioned. A really stupid study I saw once got a random man to proposition women on the street, and then vice versa.

As expected, most men said yes and most women said no and were disgusted & angry.

But that tells us very little about women's willingness to engage in uncommitted sex, and a whole lot more about the risks of a woman going off with a stranger (and obviously a randomly propositioning man is unlikely to be very safe!)

Frankly, the study also showed that men's physical strength & libido can make them very stupid. Just being stronger wouldn't mean a random woman would pose no threat to them. As my uncle found out once after intervening to help a woman supposedly in distress & then waking up robbed of his laptop! Gay men also run huge risks engaging in Grindr style hookups.

the LG community is a good window on male vs female sexuality. Gay men’s “saunas” are a popular thing. When a lesbian one opened it didnt last long.

YANBU. Men and women definitely have different attitudes to sex, on average. I just look at things like the Gisele Pelicot case, where her husband drugged her and got, what, 100 men to participate in abusing her? How many women would have done the same if the situation were reversed?

I don't even mean it in a solely negative way, like my example - it just seems, from my experience, to be a much more primal and constant urge for men, in a way that it's not for women.

Ofc - as I said, lesbians DO have a bit more casual sex than straight women & seem to regret it less, but they definitely don't go in for ridiculous (& dangerous) bachannals the way gay men too often do

. Sadly the continuance of this kind of ethos has a very bad effect on young gay men.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/gay-loneliness/

I'm 52 and that pretty much sums it up for me.

Also- over the decades I have been having sex I tend to not find alot of men attractive enough to want to have sex with. Maybe I am choosy, maybe not particularly sexual. (Although I love sex with people I like/am attracted to).

I'd rather have sex on my own than have sex with a random man I met on a night out. I just don't find most men that interesting, tbh.

Anecdotally, I have read of some successful bathouse-type establishments for lesbians. But they did tend to be a lot tamer than gay men's. Generally seemed to be either for bicurious women (think Killing Kittens) or women who wanted to engage in BDSM-style practices, again more commonly bisexual women. This would tally with bisexual women on average having higher sociosexuality than lesbians.

I think this is pretty typical. Women tend to be choosier whom they sleep with, while men are more choosy with marriage but not casual sex partners, on average. Which I think would fit with what was beneficial in ancient times for evolution...

Male violence is a massive factor I think, its not easy to feel that safe with a ONS. Ive had a lot of ONS when I was young, but often when fairly drunk so not thinking about the safety element. I think men who like ONSs are often after an ego hit, whereas women are less fragile and needy in that way.

Yes I was thinking about this too. Gay men's saunas...the fact that sex workers of both sexes pretty much exclusively cater to men (even the ones that do cater to women are more of the 'boyfriend experience' type)...no woman I know would ever have the urge (regardless of morality) to go to a Soho walk-up for 10 minutes. I don't think it's a case of safety or societal pressures, I think it is different.

It’s a personal thing rather than gender
but because a woman would be judged more than a man
women would ether deny it or keep quiet