To think we’re returning to a time of institutional welfare?

[Clawdya]

We can’t afford to pay poor pensioners to live alone in large council houses with a team of regular carers dropping in.

We can’t afford to pay two parents to care full-time for a disabled child, whilst also funding their entire household.

We can’t continue pushing children with complex needs who can’t function in mainstream schools into them, where they can’t learn and disrupt everyone else.

Surely the answer is large, state-run, state-funded institutions to meet these needs, with trained and skilled staff, regulated monitoring and the benefit of economies of scale?

Yes I do know thanks.

• We need more special schools as too many have closed and not enough spaces.

• We need more mental health institutions - look at what happened in Nottingham - why was that person roaming free? Oh yes - care in the community. Having been in hospital recently I saw so many people with MH issues discharged with nowhere to go it's frightening.

• we need more adult social care provision as this has also been decimated.

Whether this would be cheaper or not I don't know the answer.

I am afraid that the continued existence of this horrible thread is really all the proof we need that MN's moderaters are tacitly accepting of hate speech aimed at disabled children and adults alike. This will surely embolden ableist members to post increasingly offensive and upsetting material about disabled people to this site knowing they can do so with impunity because MN does not object to such vile content. Very sad and disappointing.

Quite @Everlore i drew mumsnet attention to it page 3 yet here we are 7 pages in doesn't go against guidelines apparently, I am probably not the only one who has reported it but here we are .

Ridiculous

OP is deluded if they can’t see institutional care is way more expensive than family care. A family carer gets about £85 a week. A few years ago, the Director of Adult SS said they were paying £650 a week for a care home place, but that was subsidised by self funders - the real cost was probably £900 a week. It will have gone up since then. Care homes for the elderly at the cheapest price will have staffing at the legal minimum, and a low food budget.

£900 a week versus £85? I can’t see any government going for that?

it's not just about money (her proposals don't save but cost) but the complete dehumanisation of disabled children and adults and just farming them off out of sight (and mind) so society/families etc aren't burdened by their existence.

Wow I have not read all the thread yet but things must be getting desperate if people are starting to think like this. Personally I would rather not see so much money funding military weapons overseas which seem to be just making our world more unsafe. Also building on green spaces when we have so many empty houses .Maybe if people were given more counselling and support they could salvage their marriages rather than needing two separate houses for a family. Just an idea and expecting hate for that comment lol.
I do agree however that people like the Southport and Nottingham killer should not be in their own homes they should be institutional care .

Yes, I too reported this thread over a day ago and I agree that others have probably done the same. If the modest proposal of forcably removing disabled children from loving families and institutionalising them against theirs and their family's wishes is not hate speech then it's hard for me to imagine how awful a post about disabled people would have to be for MN to remove it. It's a very sad indictment of the way sections of society views disabled people. This is a particularly short-sighted and ill-considered prejudice given that, as has been pointed out frequently on this thread and elsewhere, anyone of these posters suggesting imprisoning all disabled adults and children in asylums could find themselves or their loved ones becoming disabled any day so the life they're wishing on those of us would disabilities could easily be theirs tomorrow.

Just checking in one final time to see if MN have finally done the right thing and removed this outrageously offensive, concerning and upsetting thread. Sadly, but unsurprisingly, it's still here. I realise there is nothing more I can do as I and others have reported this thread to no avail, but I just wanted to leave one final comment to ensure that the moderaters are aware that I and other disabled posters see their lack of concern for hate speech about disabled people being used on their site and will not forget their refusal to act to remove it. A clear message is being sent that MN is not a safe or welcoming place for disabled people and their families, duly noted.

I have reported it too and only got a 'we and looking into it'. Would be great to hear why they think it is acceptable to stand but just silence.

I.had the we are looking into it email. It is bloody depressing,

I just reported my post and asked them what's going on. not holding out much hope. MN has changed so much over the last few years.

The thing is, we can afford to pay for humane care to be offered to those who need it. It's just that companies and a certain type of person won't pay taxation.

The solution isn't for us to bring in institutional care. History can show us how abusive and inadequate care that treats the individual like part of a process line is. Humans need relationships and connection, they aren't figures on a page.

I’m not sure that deleting the thread achieves much - 40% of people agree with OP. It is worrying but I think I’d rather know.

I also hoped this thread would have been taken down as well but not surprised sadly.
Even more depressing that 4 out of 10 think warehousing disabled people , children included, is acceptable.
I was pondering this again and have to ask how would it even be possible?
Would the state send the police to forcibly remove people . I know they would have to carry my disabled children out over mine and my husbands dead bodies. Simple as !
So to be blunt unless we are going down the route of a Nazi style state it is a non starter. Hopefully even the 4 out of 10 are not advocating that.

letting threads like this sends a very wrong message. Imagine someone posted to institutionalise another minority in this country. It would be taken down in no time. Its very concerning that it's ok to call for such completely inhumane treatment of the disabled. Hate speech is clearly not allowed on here according to the guidelines. But it seems to be ok when it's aimed at a particular group.

At least I could reference back to it when they complain the said minority are making things up. I see so many threads denying racism and prejudice against the disabled. Some people think as long as they are not saying a slur it is okay.

But it is about the money, and the current system is unsustainable.
"We can’t afford to pay poor pensioners to live alone in large council houses with a team of regular carers dropping in."
Should pensioners/anyone be able to under-occupy a council house? I'd say no if they receive any housing benefit, if they're paying their own rent crack on. If a person needs more than a couple of visits a day then it would make more sense for them to be some sort of supported accommodation as they're no longer living independently.
"We can’t afford to pay two parents to care full-time for a disabled child, whilst also funding their entire household."
We can and we should pay parents to look after their seriously disabled child, what we shouldn't be doing is paying £50,000 on taxis to take children to £100,000 a year respite care. Councils are spending millions every year that is going to private businesses on children who will never be in employment. I think the idea of access to education needs looking at and maybe more home respite and home tutors for some children.
"We can’t continue pushing children with complex needs who can’t function in mainstream schools into them, where they can’t learn and disrupt everyone else."
Agreed, see above point. I think for many primary school age children parents having access to funded respite care and home tutors would be better than the current system. No special school can cater for everyone and many are just holding pens. Economically it makes no sense to spend £50,000 on taxis for a year so a parent can go out to a £25,000 job. So make the parents life easier for a few years by giving them enough to stay home and let the child gain enough maturity for organised education.

Throughout the world everyday, people face a simple choice of work or starve. We've had it good in the UK for a long time but those days are coming to an end. It won't matter who gets voted in over the next few years because economically those that don't work are going to have to survive on less and less and only the most profoundly disabled will be getting any help.

your attitude to disabled children and their education is frankly disgusting. Special schools are NOT holding pens ( what a thoroughly disgusting term and implies you see disabled children as akin to animals ! ).
Disabled children are entitled to a life and should not be expected to be stuck at home because they are not deemed worthy of a life and education. AND why do you assume all disabled kids are disrupting education for everyone else?
Unbelievable !

I will agree with your comment on holding pens, shall we call them expensive childcare instead? Because in many special schools there is no education going on. Children will leave without qualifications or skills because of the nature of the system. You can't stick a bunch of children with varying and opposing needs in a classroom and expect miracles. Nowhere did I say they should be stuck at home or denied an education and nowhere did I say ALL disabled children are disrupting the education of everyone else.
What I did say is the current system is unsustainable. Total council spending on home-to-school transport for children with Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND) in the UK was £1.73 billion in 2023/24 on top of The overall UK spend on SEND provision was estimated at over £10 billion per year as of late 2024. That's a tenth of the education budget and a massive chunk of that is going to private business in the form of profit not education. Whilst private equity firms are allowed to profit from disability the costs will only rise whilst children will get less. My point was that there has to be a better way.

well the better way is to stop private firms profiting then surely. Because it is the same with residential care and childrens homes alongside outsourced wheelchair services etc etc.
outsourcing care to private companies is a licence to print but the government seems intent on continuing down.that road.
So maybe you should direct your ire at them instead of at innocent disabled children by trying to.limit their lives as a money saving exercise.

I know I said I'd leave this poisonous thread alone now but I have finally had a response from a mod which I wanted to share. Here is the relevant section:
"While we agree this post is definitely controversial, we aren't sure it breaks guidelines. She's floating a (fairly outlandish) theory but she's not actually 'calling for it' to happen. It also looks like lots of people have challenged the opinion robustly on the thread already, which is probably a more effective outcome than us simply removing the post altogether."
So, from this, I would surmise that MN is fine with hate speech as long as it's quite extreme, which is an interesting stance for the site to take. I am interested in whether MN would give an equally indulgent shrug of the shoulders to a similar post which suggested removing children from any other group from their families and incarcerating them in state-run institutions. Not that I am wanting to see such a thread as the mere idea is despicable to me, I am just interested to see if it is only when applied to disabled kids that, in MN's opinion, this is merely an 'outlandish theory', or if they would feel the same about the wholesale segregation and detention of any other group of children if expounded in a post on here.

I am glad you posted this illuminating response as it gives credence to the point I have been trying to make, that leaving an outrageously offensive OP like this to stand emboldens similarly minded bigots to share their own abhorrant views.
Here is a poster who thinks that it is wasteful to spend money on the education and care of disabled children as most of them will never be able to work. The clear implication here being that, if they are not going to be able to contribute financially to society when they are adults, they are a worthless drain on society and no resources should be put into their health and well-being. Your views on the value of human life are extremely disturbing since they seem to be entirely reliant on a child's future earning potential.
Your final sentence in which you appear to be relishing in the imminent starvation and death of disabled people if the welfare state collapses is also both extremely chilling and disturbing. I doubt that you have much direct experience of disabled children if you can hold their happiness and even their lives in such contempt, but, even if this is the case, your inability to even show any empathy for disabled children is most concerning, bordering on sociopathic.

Not that long ago when they were just rounded up and disposed of. And here we are again only it's Britain in 2025 not Germany in 1941. Of course we could just go Victorian with rope picking and bottle blacking. Perhaps have children going up chimneys.