To think we’re returning to a time of institutional welfare?

[Clawdya]

We can’t afford to pay poor pensioners to live alone in large council houses with a team of regular carers dropping in.

We can’t afford to pay two parents to care full-time for a disabled child, whilst also funding their entire household.

We can’t continue pushing children with complex needs who can’t function in mainstream schools into them, where they can’t learn and disrupt everyone else.

Surely the answer is large, state-run, state-funded institutions to meet these needs, with trained and skilled staff, regulated monitoring and the benefit of economies of scale?

Oh dear OP I fear you really haven’t actually thought about or looked into at all before posting, because this really is complete nonsense and if you’d spent even 5 minutes on google looking at a few figures you would have known that.

I think the biggest problem is that we now need to working adults in a household to be able to afford the bills, never mind luxuries annd combined with the fact that people move away from family and no longer stay where they grew up means we have been forced to outsource and monetise every interaction and assistance.

This means that the invisible 'workforce' that used to drop in on elderly relative and do chores/basic care, or used to stay hoome with a child unable to cope with school, or volunteer with various charities are now not available which means someone has to be paid to do this and in the case of lower income families this means the state.

Yes, let's put all those benefits recipient's in the workhouse, disabled people can be locked in asylums and kids sent up chimneys again...

Seriously wtf is wrong with you?

Nobody wants to go back to victorian times.

1:1 care does NOT mean they are on a ward. Where have you got this idea from?

Sure, let’s put all those LD/ND kids in institutions.

It was good enough for the late Queen mother’s cousins right? Except their wasnt state run…

Disgusting

That's what it sounds like.

🙄

What you really means is let's hide them away where we can't see them.

All the evidence shows that state run institutions don't work, cause harm, and are costly.

All they do is institutionalise people.

What the fuck have I just read, seen some stupid things on here but this is just vile. So basically op deems any person in need of support as an economic burden . We don't just have a difference of opinion we have a different moral compass

Well 'humane' is what everyone likes to think, whilst making oh so sincere references to workhouses, all the while being entirely uninformed and unaware of the reality.

People with intellectual disabilities, for example, receive 'care in the community' in the shape of poor social housing in the worst areas (high flats and such like) where they spend their days alone and often frightened of their neighbours. Most of the day centres/resource centres that they clung to for some respite from their lonely existence no longer exist. The only 'community support' they get is of the minimum wage paid variety (and it's the bare minimum of support).

When I worked in the learning disability service, we had clients who had lived in a community hospital setting in the 80's and 90's and it was all they talked about, they missed it so much (their friends, the round the clock staff, the handy cash office, the days out, the parties, the activities, the summer fete, the coffee mornings, the movie nights). We had many young clients who struggled just as much in the community (clients who had never been in an institution) who would be admitted to units meant only for assessment and treatment (small bedded units) which they would then refuse to leave.

I don’t often get actually offended, but no, thanks very much, you’re not putting my severely disabled daughter into an institution. Yes we need much more help and support, and yes, carers allowance is a pittance, but we’ve both managed to hold down jobs and look after her . I don’t really know what else to say to this ! I’m a bit speechless

You are assuming every elderly person is living in a council property. Surely you must recognise many elderly people own their own homes. How would this in any way take a person off temporary accommodation? If it wasn't being used the house would likely be privately rented or sold.

After the SEN report by Lady Warnock and subsequent legislation, lots of SEN schools were closed. Big mistake but parents back then wanted mainstream schools, now they don’t. We have way more Sen dc so of course every provision is overwhelmed. Families have multiple Sen dc so don’t stop after one - it’s choice.

Ditto where to live. Care home for DM was £5,500 a month. Most people don’t have that as pension payments so they use capital. No capital or savings or pension - state pays. You have to be nearly dead to get 4 visits a day from carers. Relatives are expected to do it. If you have savings and need some f
help, you pay.

Yes, I think far too many people stay in housing association homes for life. Even ones who earn really well with no dc! They can inherit a lot of money and still keep the house and it definitely eats up housing resources. We need fluid contracts and not have people hogging resources.

If universities are not recruiting as many students - let other young workers have the spare rooms.

You want to put disabled children in an institution?

Agree. Institutions don’t have to be dismal and could offer a better, fuller lifestyle than people get at home with their broke and shut in families caring for them. I suspect a lot more carers would be mentally and physically, not to mention financially, better off if in work instead of at home caring too.

Gosh we really are all turning on each other 🤨

Exactly where are these trained and skilled staff coming from? Nigeria?

People keep referring to workhouses. What the OP really means are asylums. Now, speaking as a mental health nurse, this is tricky. On one hand, asylums were often dreadful places. Rows upon rows of sedated people who didn’t leave for decades. On the other hand, what we have now isn’t always better. Short term wards with not enough beds, a mental health service which “treats people in the community” and so leaves people feeling abandoned… what I do know is that paying for even adequate institution based care is breathtakingly expensive and so the government won’t do it for anyone but the most outlying of cases. Plus, of course, that many people want to care for their families and so don’t want them living in institutional care unless absolutely necessary.

17% of pensioners live in social housing.

obviously that is quite a lot of people in absolute terms but it also means that 83% don’t

Are there no prisons ? Are there no workhouses ?

Better yet that they die quickly and decrease the surplus population.

What percentage are in care homes and in private rents?

Everyone keeps saying that, but it's worth a try and see no??

Sounds like you haven’t actually looked at figures as 1 30 min visit from carers and 4 15 minute visits a day is far cheaper than care home fees, and old people pay towards them.