To think we’re returning to a time of institutional welfare?

[Clawdya]

We can’t afford to pay poor pensioners to live alone in large council houses with a team of regular carers dropping in.

We can’t afford to pay two parents to care full-time for a disabled child, whilst also funding their entire household.

We can’t continue pushing children with complex needs who can’t function in mainstream schools into them, where they can’t learn and disrupt everyone else.

Surely the answer is large, state-run, state-funded institutions to meet these needs, with trained and skilled staff, regulated monitoring and the benefit of economies of scale?

How do you explain the 7000 autistic individuals who have been raped, starved to death and secluded in rooms without windows, a massive national scandal, yet noone adressed it fully yet

Yeah, let's round them all up and stick them in an institution.

What the fuck?

Exactly what Labour - Socialists want. Everything and everyone under their control. 🤢

This isn't really true, re the rich leaving. It's not very easy for billionaires to leave assets they have in this country - like businesses, investments and properties. If someone owns a football club for example, they can't just leave this. The assets they own here would still be taxed as normal. Dividends, capital gains, or sales of assets tied to that country can be taxed at the point of origin.
To fully escape, billionaires often need complex offshore structures, but these are often scrutinised.
Wealth flight stuides show not many actually leave if presented with that scenario. For example, in EU countries with wealth taxes, mobility was relatively low. Only a few percent moved abroad. Most prefer to stay where their businesses, families, and networks are.

So this whole argument really doesn't stack up. And it's basically what the billionaires, and their contemporaries tell people who suggest taxing them.

This might be controversial, but some children and their families, benefit from residential care, with weekends or other arranged times spent at home.
The same applies to disabled folk or older folk who need care beyond a certain level. Training enthusiastic staff, who are well paid, not overworked and who are appreciated, would be an investment for society in general.

I believe UKIP had something like this in their manifesto a few years ago.

A humble reminder that we are ALL just one accident away from being completely dependent on others, whether than be family or government funded care. Some people create their own problems, but others don’t and through no fault of their own.

But people love their children and grandparents… yes, even the disabled ones 😕 They don’t want to send them off to asylums, they want to care for them at home.

Well that is different to carers going to Florida isn't it. Independent living for adults is different from them living at home, care packages are different for everyone.

The op and others are begrudging adults and children with special needs an independent as possible life, where they might have a holiday from their benefits, people i actually know go on uk breaks and occasionally abroad (not heard of Florida) but because they "are not taxpayers" they shouldn't be allowed.

I sit around all day these days just WAITING to quote this on Mumsnet… sadly it’s becoming something of a full time job. Glad I’ve got a fellow brother-in-Dickens to help me out.

As you’ve started it @CatsMagicI hope that you don’t mind me continuing, as I feel like it would help the OP in their understanding of this issue (also worth noting that this was written 182 years ago):
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge."Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again."And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?""They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not.""The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge."Both very busy, sir.""Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I am very glad to hear it.""Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?""Nothing!" Scrooge replied."You wish to be anonymous?""I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas, and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentionedthey cost enough; and those who arebadly off must go there.""Many can't go there; and many would rather die.""If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besidesexcuse me--I don't know that.""But you might know it," observed the gentleman."It's not my business," Scrooge returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's.Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew. Scrooge resumed his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than was usual with him.

Indeed they did Mr Farage was all for it.

It’s £1000 a week for even low level need care homes (far more for complex needs and if they need 1:1) so £4K per month - it’s doesn’t cost £4K a month for pension, pension credit, attendance allowance and 4 visits a day (if person owns home but has minimal savings)

well are you a carer? If not then what do you know about it ?
And if you are a full time carer that still doesn't give you the right to.speak for all of us and tell us what us best for us and our loved ones !
what a disgusting thread !

Argh- excuse the terrible formatting. Have it as a picture instead (the point still stands!)

Do tell us where this has formed part of Labour policy.

There most definitely is a Wealth Exodus (or a Wexit if you write headlines), from the UK. It’s simply not attractive for the wealthy to live here anymore. So who is going to pay all the tax when more and more wealth leaves? And more and more people are state dependent. Made worse no doubt by RR upcoming calamity of a budget. Labour just don’t understand we need economic growth. They’re too busy building dependency on state provision
Horrifying all round.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-used-to-flock-to-the-uk-now-theyre-fleeing-2025-6

I am amused you think Labour are socialists!

I’m bemused that you don’t.

Do you also want one of your children to be disabled?
Guessed not.

🤣

so this a truthful Break down and this is for a complete medical case on hospitals treatment at home

benefits a year including dla and rent etc so everything included
34,00 a year

respite care package - 52,000 a year

her ehcp - 80 k a year.

this is probably the higher end of usual due to it being a high need case.

166k a year she costs without the NHS bill mind BUT

she is doing well academically, she is doing well socially, she lives life to the absulute full. Is loved and spends her time pretty much like every abled pre teen.

even if you had 10 of her in a institution place setting with nursing care - the wages alon for the nurses for ratio would succeed the cost of 10 of her at home

then you would still need

• building costs
• Insurance
• cleaners
• cooks
• teachers
• energy bills
• and more …

I have a severely disabled daughter living at home , I don’t get that amount . I was being flippant, I’m actually quite upset at this post

Carers allowance is 83 per week for a parent who gives up work (and life in general) to become a full time carer. That is a fucking bargain. People like us cannot even access a few hours respite per week. You clearly haven't got a clue. Care outside the family home costs multiple times as much .much easier to throw families with disabled family members under the bus and let them work themselves into an early grave.

I'd assume you don't have a disabled child you have to look agter alone...and also educate alone.

Also if he ever is "well" enough to move out of her care she has no income, no career, no points for aid from benefits and will more than likely struggle to pay her rent.

If he is never well enough to move out she is looking after an adult as she ages for the rest of her life, struggling on to keep them together.

She never has the ability to make more income as her time is completely taken up by the needs of a dependant

Now about that free money...

Eh? Nothing state run is ever cheaper. Plus, older people, or those with disabled children, don’t, obviously, want to involve institutions.

That’s why they were shut down. 🤷‍♀️

Sorry, I clearly didn’t make myself clear, I have a severely disabled adult daughter living at home, I don’t get that amount of money. This thread is quite upsetting, my attempt at being flippant was off the mark, sorry if I offended anyone.