To think that you can absolutely buy consent

[TheNewWasp]

Unfortunately, we have a constant influx of threads of posters that have caught their spouses having lap dances or spending money on a sexual worker.
Regardless of how hurting this may be, I can't understand why many posters argue that "you can't buy consent".
Not sure if the assumption is that every sexual worker/prostitute is being forced to do that activity. Many do, that is the sad reality, but not all of them.
In fact, we have the occasional poster that said they used to work as a stripper and they used to make fun of their customers but in the end it was just a way of making good money. Was not this person selling their consent for an interaction that otherwise would have not happened?

By that notion the work I do should be considered non consensual.

It’s not women who perpetuate that. It’s men who choose to believe that.

You are blaming women for men’s behaviour.

The existence of male strippers has never seen women viewing men solely as sex objects.

I think this can be said of many men in terms of any form of casual sex encounter. Whether paid or not. Look at the narrative surrounding “body counts” and slutshaming.

They’re not.

It’s possible it’s not the same group.

I use Vietnamese nail salons and take them at face value (I think it’s incorrect and a bit racist to declare them ALL human trafficking hubs.)

I also don’t have an issue with women and men choosing to sell sex.

It us pretty common though. How can you know? It's not racist to say a type of business often trafficks certain nationalities of people.

I'm sick of all these supposed analogies to other kinds of paid work. Not just yours, Rainbows, I just hit critical mass at this point!

With other jobs, employers are buying your work. They aren't paying for direct access to your body - the inside of your body, at that.

There is another 'job' with similarities in this respect. Some men people pay to beat someone up. I'm not talking about fighters, but some geezer getting paid to let a richer geezer beat him to a pulp. This is okay, right, the punchbag consents after all?

Some here might need reminding of the lively trade in kidneys, other organs and excessive blood donations. If sovereignty over one's own body means purchased consent is always valid, nobody needs to worry about the Bangladeshi villagers who have, after all, signed consent forms and been paid. In fact, why isn't this legal everywhere?

You either believe a person - any person - is just a piece of meat for sale, or you think people have some responsibility not to treat others as meat. You don't get to claim special conditions because a man wants to ejaculate into it.

I suppose people who make that argument would say that organ donation has permanent consequences in a way sex doesn't, and that since sex is an everyday activity in a way organ donation isn't, the addition of money doesn't make it equivalent. Not convinced by that myself.

I think money makes a key difference to both. If someone wants to altruistically donate to a family member, (though still could be problematic) that's different from a poor person being paid to donate an organ.

Of course we can choose to put a monetary price on our consent. We do this all the time with work. I wouldn't consent to putting in a shift in Asda if I wasn't getting paid.

So why not get paid to have strangers fuck you up the bum? It's just work, and I'm guessing the money's better.

Most don't do anal I thought? At least I hope not, it's so dangerous.

Naïve. And, yes, it is. If you ever feel brave enough to read punter review sites, you'll see regular complaints about women with wound packing in their bums 😢

That's terrible. My understanding was that the punter sites are mainly the worst clients who all but the most vulnerable/desperate say no to, so it would make sense they'd agree.. 😢

Ah, come on now, it’s a completely different thing. There should be absolutely no legitimisation of an “industry” where most of the “workers” are trafficked and vulnerable women and CHILDREN. You can not separate the “sex work is work” crowd out. It is the thin end of the wedge. This is very high on my list of what is unpalatable about the modern “pick-me” society.

Because every study shows having sex for money even if it’s ‘free choice’ isn’t really choice. There is a fundamental difference between doing other things for money and having a man buy your consent to use your body.
If you read some of the research it really messes up the mental well being of women even if they ‘freely’ choose.

This was in response to a poster who claimed she freely chose to strip for money and all her friends were happy to do it.

I totally agree the issue is men. Especially as the vast percentage of of sex workers are trafficked or vulnerable women.

Anyone comparing sex work to other jobs where there’s an exchange of money must have very little understand of the degrading and relentless toll prostitution has on a woman both physically and mentally. The first hand accounts I have read about are unbelievably horrific. Day in day out abuse, bodily damage.

Women’s bodies cannot cope with constant sex and that is before any abusive violence that occurs so often for them. Many are in constant pain.

I can’t believe you even compared working at ASDA to being in anyway a similar having men abuse your internal body day in day out under such awful circumstances, many are trafficked.😡

Excellent post and spot on!

First hand accounts - do you have any books/websites that you would recommend that give reliable accounts? I find a lot of accounts, at least the ones I've come across, seem to give an unrealistically rosy picture.

But then by that logic no one consents to a job, especially ones with a big power imbalance.

I am v against 'sex work is work', but I don't think this argument holds up.

“It’s outrageous to compare prostitution with stacking shelves!”

Motte: sex work is quantitatively more gruelling than stacking shelves.

Bailey: sex work is qualitatively different from all other work and therefore consent cannot be bought.

So what, so two people who I've never heard of say that its different 'quantitatively'/ 'qualitatively' and no one else can say otherwise?

No one is saying its the same, just that consent can be applied ( in certain circumstances) to both

As I said upthread, if I was offered a million pounds for a shag, I'd consent to that and you can't take away my agency by saying I couldn't.

Well, yes.

Fewer than 10% of sex workers are trafficked, not the majority. That’s a myth. It’s interesting that this is an area where people absolutely refuse to listen to the women they claim they are trying to protect (apart from if those women agree with them, which most don’t).
“That’s completely different” doesn’t wash because different people see sex differently. Why is it not wrong for someone to pay me to massage them, involving me touching their body, but if I give them a blow job or hand job then it’s always wrong and I can’t consent to it?

Motte and bailey is a type of defensive fortification, not a firm of solicitors.

And society takes away agency all the time for actions that are judged harmful. You can't sell a kidney, or ride a motorbike without a helmet just because you want to.