To think that you can absolutely buy consent

[TheNewWasp]

Unfortunately, we have a constant influx of threads of posters that have caught their spouses having lap dances or spending money on a sexual worker.
Regardless of how hurting this may be, I can't understand why many posters argue that "you can't buy consent".
Not sure if the assumption is that every sexual worker/prostitute is being forced to do that activity. Many do, that is the sad reality, but not all of them.
In fact, we have the occasional poster that said they used to work as a stripper and they used to make fun of their customers but in the end it was just a way of making good money. Was not this person selling their consent for an interaction that otherwise would have not happened?

Of course it can - I would never choose to do any job I've ever had if it wasn't for the money. Being paid is a fair exchange where I agree to do X, Y or Z in return for ABC amount of cash.

Unfortunately as you've seen above there are a lot of people who can't grasp that women are individuals who may make choices they would never make themselves, and justify this lack of understanding by deciding that they cannot possibly be thinking for themselves and must instead be having their decisions made for them by somebody else. Which is just as insulting and offensive as it sounds.

No, I understand they can make different choices from me, I just don't think consent is ever free and enthusiastic is money is involved. I'm not judging those women or saying they shouldn't be able to do what they're doing; I just don't think it's true consent.

Of course you can. I doubt many rich men would have the wives they otherwise. I also can't say I wouldn't have sex with some dude if he offered life changing money.

But provided it isn't a gun-to-the-head/duress/exploitation situation (which is a different thing altogether, not to mention illegal), consent is consent. You/I either consent to do something in return for whatever or we don't - whether or not we like [wiping arses/cleaning/pulling pints/lapdancing] or actually want to do it isn't the same thing.

The idea that women aren't able to think for themselves because they have made a choice that somebody else finds unacceptable is a very slippery slope, I think.

Many people have jobs they do to pay the rent/mortgage. Would they do them for free? I wouldn't spend all day cutting people's hair for nothing. Pay me what I'm worth and I'll consent. So of course you can buy consent for sex. I am not speaking here of those wretches who are forced into it, so must do it whether they want to or not. Some women don't mind doing it, if they're paid properly.

I take it you disagree with the consent or pay model, then? :D

I do wonder where people place golddiggers on their sexual coercion spectrum.

Apologies if I'm missing the point but I thought conditional consent along the lines of "I'm definitely up for having PIV sex with you provided you use a condom" was ok?

Is your argument that if no cash is exchanged then a 12 year old can be considered to consent….?

Loads of conditions. Some people may place conditions on the beliefs their partner needs to have, number of previous sex partners, them being single, them being rich, them being a sportstar, a celebrity etc. Some people want sex solely to reach a certain number of sex partners, to say they have ticked off a sexual partner bucket list, for a laugh, a dare, to say they fucked a famous person etc.

There are so many reasons people would choose to have and not have sex that have nothing to do with being attracted to a person and where the conditions aren’t met they decline to have sex

I just don’t get why money is the one reason where having sex for money is considered non-consensual.

Some have mentioned golddiggers and women like Bonnie Blue and I struggle to see them as non consenting.

I think we need to separate emotional consent from contractual consent. Consent as defined in the OED is "giving permission for something to happen or entering an agreement for something to happen." Therefore if a woman chooses freely to sell sex to a man, she is indeed consenting. I've worked in the sex industry and not all sex workers are pimped out drug addicts.

The woman in question would not perform sex acts with the man if she was not being paid. Therefore, the payment is coercion. Coerced sex is rape.

I've worked with, known and been friends with multiple sex workers in two countries and over many years. It's a myth.

And the reason you're confused is because you don't understand that consent needs to be full and enthusiastic. If you don't know that, you shouldn't be having sex.

Who benefits when people parrot the ‘sex work is work’ dogma? In whose interests is it to insist that for many women, despite the very obvious risk factors involved, it’s a legitimate career choice they’re comfortable with and happy to do in perpetuity?

Who benefits? Very obviously men.

How many are;

Happy
Emotionally healthy
No abuse in childhood (sexual or other)
No addiction
No poverty
No coercive control in any relationships
Other choices easily available

Because in my experience, if you remove all the trauma and poverty, you'd have about 20 sex workers in the world and a BJ would cost a million pounds.

It's very disingenuous to pretend sex work is no different than cutting hair or flipping burgers.

Of course it is different ffs.

There is no safe way to do sex work- intimate contact with unvetted strangers, bodily fluids, bodily penetration, risk of pregnancy or disease, risk of violence and psychological damage, no PPE, inextricably linked to organised crime and substance abuse.

How can anyone pretend that is no different from cutting a fringe.

This 👆

Did anyone see that Netflix show about the dissapearance of the American teen from the luxury cruise liner? There was a US Army (?) officer on that who basically said he saw her being held in a brothel. She tried to confide in him that she was a US citizen kept there against her will. He did...nothing. Why, the camera crew asked him "Welll you see so many girls all around the world in these places and they all have some sob story or another..."
It's everywhere. Men don't want to admit they participate, but they do.

Because every study shows having sex for money even if it’s ‘free choice’ isn’t really choice. There is a fundamental difference between doing other things for money and having a man buy your consent to use your body.
If you read some of the research it really messes up the mental well being of women even if they ‘freely’ choose.

I had a friend, years ago, who was very cheerful about being a lap dancer. She was a good looking woman and liked the money she earned. So, yes, she consented, and didn’t care what other people thought.

I agree that in theory you may be able to buy consent from some people.

It is just difficult to know which sex workers fits into that category and which doesn't. "Because she said she does" doesn't really cut it.

Best just you know not to use sex workers? I don't know why that's meant to be difficult or some sort of alien concept tbh

The problem is that we live in a world where generally men hold all the power.
From literal space in the playground, to socially conditioning women and girls to look a certain way for men. I think the average woman spend 10 times the amount of money on ‘self care’ than their male counterparts. Then there’s the wage disparity and the board room assumptions where senior females are often asked to get the tea or take minutes by clients despite their senior position.

So when men choose to pay to ejaculate in a woman’s body it is all about objectification and it’s de-humanising. No woman would freely choose to do that knowingly. They often realise much later in life because the world we live in makes them think it’s a choice. That’s the women who claim they are there of their own free will, obviously many are not there through choice either.

Do people take ketamine because they think it’s a good idea?

Many people self harm, it comes in many forms

I was a stripper for years. Would I have done it for free? No. Did I happily do it for money, yes.

Lots are, lots aren't. I worked with many women who were from middle class backgrounds. None of them were addicts and none of them were poverty stricken. They'd made a calculated decision to earn far better money than they could elsewhere in such a relatively short space of time. I realise this offends women like you who will never reconcile that decision and I truly understand that. But please don't try to tell a former sex worker that we are all coerced addicts or poor and uneducated wrecks because, whilst it is sadly true for many, it is not true for all.