To think a very high percentage of people are Neuro divergent?

[Marshmallow4545]

I have just spoken to yet another friend who suspects that they may be Neurodivergent. They are not interested in seeking a diagnosis for various reasons but this means they will never be picked up in the statistics. Anecdotally, this isn't unusual amongst my friendship circle and I now suspect that a very large percentage of the population believe they may be ND even if they have no diagnosis and have never seen a professional about this. So out of interest please vote:

YABU: if you think you are Neurotypical
YANBU: if you believe you are Neurodivergent, even if you don't have a diagnosis

"For me, it is grossly insulting to people profoundly affected by autism (and their families/carers) to pretend they have anything in common with those who self-identify as ND."

This 100% I really feel for the people struggling with children (including adult children who are profoundly affected)

I think ND is now more common than being NT. hence the definitions should change. NT is not now Typical, ND is Typical. Etc.

The term neurodivergent seems to mean anything these days, so am not surprised so many people think they are. A bit quiet and like order? Don’t like big groups? That’s me- just sounds like part of the individual human condition tbh, but many people would put a label on it.

I think there are behaviours that are considered NT that people think should be the norm. ND people may struggle with this in different aspects even if they are the overall majority Vs NT people. For example, it's expected that NT people can tolerate loud and busy environments and can be reasonably organised. Different ND people may struggle with different elements of these things so you still feel like you're in the minority even if ND people are the overall majority.

I think there is a broader issue in society where normal feelings and experiences are pathologised and medicalised. We seem to need labels to validate ourselves and understand ourselves. It is definitely a problem.

Neurodivergent People are more likely to be chronically online.

OK time to leave this thread. I thought it might be possible to have an intelligent conversation about the bounds of behaviours, the comorbidities and the clusters of differences and how we define them.

But the utter wankers who think their reckons beat brain scans, neuroscience and people’s experience have arrived. To spread their ignorance.

Years ago, kids were labelled "odd" and ostracised at school without knowing why. The response to them tended to be things like "she makes herself a target" and "he doesn't do himself any favours, does he?" The onus was on ND children to change themselves to "fit in" (with the result that those capable of it would make huge efforts to mask at a big personal cost to themselves and those who couldn't mask would just be left to sink), rather than on those surrounding them to understand that this was just how they functioned.

I have ADHD. At school, I was bright and achieved well academically but had problems with focus and was significantly less mature than my peers in some respects. I have spent a large chunk of my life fighting against the way my brain works (visual, need frequent sensory input, starting tasks can be near impossible, terrible short term memory) and as a result have made some dreadful life decisions, particularly in my work life, which culminated in complete burnout during COVID and having to stop work altogether (I'm now doing something different part-time). Things have now turned a corner for me in some respects and I'm managing to hold it together much better as a parent and as an employee because I'm finding ways to work with my brain, not against it. Knowing why some things are harder for me than for other people and researching and planning workarounds makes life much easier.

It is likely that my eldest DC also has ADHD, from what I've observed, although he's coping so we haven't yet pursued a diagnosis. And as a result, we're able to put strategies in place to help him cope better with home and school life - visual reminders for chores, clear and immediate structured rewards, learning spellings in the bath where the hot water helps him concentrate and doing homework on the bus or train where, again, the motion and background noise seem to help him concentrate. And being aware in teaching boundaries and social skills that he may be behind his peers in some respects and need strategies to compensate. Factoring plenty of time into the weekend for physical exercise and down time, rather than trying to cram in too many things.

It's not about expecting "help" or "support" in this house, it's about recognising why we find things difficult and putting strategies in place to help cope and to overcome our difficulties. It's also about not putting ourselves in situations where we can't cope - I won't go back to doing a full-time sedentary office job which requires excellent executive function skills because, quite frankly, my brain shuts down and I'm shit at it. Likewise, I won't be sending my DC to an ultra-modern, super-strict academy for secondary, without outside space, grass and trees, because the strict rules, uncomfortable uniform and lack of sensory input would be a disaster for him.

This. Well said.

OP, the way I read this is you are basically saying that the majority of people have an area of life the struggle with.

If you are saying this makes the ND then yes I would agree with you that the majority of people are ND.

However I think this really comes down to defining your definition of ND. Virtually everyone in the world has something that the struggle with compared to what is considered the "norm". That may be not liking noise/crowds, not liking structure, struggling with organisation, struggling with social interaction or any one of a million other possible things.

I reckon the diagnostic criteria has widened. I also think that people like a diagnosis as it’s blame free “I’m always late because I’m dyspraxic” rather than “I have dyspraxia which means I have to make extra effort to manage my time”.

Having a diagnosis relieves the person of personal responsibility. It also opens door to support which just wouldn’t open without a label despite quite possibly being needed regardless of having that label.

It’s a reflection of our fragmented society where there is very little community IMO.

No because if it was true it would no longer be neurodivergence, it would be another norm. Just like having curly hair isn’t being hair divergent.

I think that we mistake what are natural differences between people as so called "neurodivergence". People are desperate to put labels on things. I think it's unhelpful in many cases.

I think there may be a degree of skew in that neurodivergent people tend to make friends with other neurodivergent people, even if they don't realise it. So some people will have loads of ND friends, and others almost none. And you know, maybe it will turn out not to be neurodivergence, but something else, that brings these people together.

If 70% think they are neurodivergent- surely they are not neurodivergent then? The other 30% are

I'm not sure there is such a thing as Neurotypical. I think that there are obviously people with significant autism and related conditions who have a specific disorder, but a lot of what we now call neurodivergance in milder cases is normal human variation, and if we made a society which was more inclusive of difference in general then it would be better for everyone.

I think my cousin is autistic and unable to function in the way most people can manage, and this is fairly rare.
I think most people have quirks, strengths, weaknesses, likes and dislikes and we should try to move towards our strengths as much as possible to have happy lives.
I do not believe for a second the world can be divided between Normies and ND people.
I also think that if most people put their phones in a drawer for a year they would feel more able to manage life. I include myself in that.
Mainly I’m sick to the bones of people pathologising normal childhood behaviour. Children are fucking weird- it’s great. Take the tablet off them, run them around, intervene when absolutely necessary.

Sorry I can't find the post I wanted to quote but I don't think there's an answer in endless 'resilience' teaching moments. We're overloading children both in school and out with things their developing brains aren't coping with and I don't think their general resilience is really in question. But you can't keep bombarding them and expect elastic, never ending, resilience.

We are all diverse. The idea of being 'neurotypical' is therefore total crap.

We are all variations around an indefinable normal, you go looking for neurodivergent behaviour, you will find it.

I hate that phrase “x needs to build resilience”

I have heard it in schools and in the workplace
it basically means x is overwhelmed and not coping.
either they are in the wrong environment and it will never be right (& no one wants to admit that) or the environment needs some tweaks to make it suitable.

change the environment. Not the person. Should be the starting point.

I mean, yes, this - all day.
If I hear one more successful, articulate, middle class woman with a good job, children and a husband claim to be autistic I’m going to scream.
Its just really insulting to people (and their carers) who will never be able to have those things.
Liking maths, having a literal sense of humour and being squeamish about certain noises or textures are generally personality quirks.

I thought that the ND charities suggest, based on research, that 20% of the population are ND….. sounds about right to me based on my life experience

This is why the numbers have increased. I guess that's why (according to Trump) there are no Amish autistics. Everyone has a level at which they break and now neurotypicals are being placed in environments that most humans wouldn't cope with, they think they're autistic.

The increasing numbers make things very difficult for people like me, who are at the extreme end of the spectrum...in that I struggle to function even in less busy circumstances. It feels very unfair and my diagnoisis now feels a bit pointless.

I voted YANBU because I have a diagnosis, diagnosed in 2016.

Maybe we’re all just individuals with different strengths, weaknesses and personalities? Clearly, there are some ND people with autism, ADHD etc but the current trend seems to be that more people are being diagnosed than ever to the point that as previous posters have said, there are more ND than NT. For example, masking. We all mask to some extent when out in public or at work. We all feel anxious at times. At what point do these feelings become part of a ND diagnosis?
I don’t know a lot about the diagnosis process and am merely sharing my thoughts and fully accept I’m no expert and may well be wrong about all of this.