My teenage daughter hates her ethnicity

[ByCoralZebra]

My daughter is 17 and she was born in Hong Kong. We moved to the UK when she was 13 but her dad still works in Hong Kong. I'm wasian and her dad's fully cantonese. We are planning to stay with her dad in Hong Kong the upcoming holidays and dd is very upset about it. She has a few friends there that she can meet up with and she loves hiking with her dad. But whenever the trip is mentioned she burst into tears.

She says she doesn't like Hong Kong because she thinks the culture is mean and rude. I asked her why she thinks that and she said there's a general culture of being ill wishing and unkind. I asked her for an example of there while she was in Hong Kong and she couldn't give me any.

In her cohort now there is 3 girls (including her) that are from Hong Kong, and they are all friends. It turns out that her horrible impression of HKers now comes from them. One of those girls' dad is a doctor and the girl would tell my dd how her dad would tell her how his patients are fat and deserve it as they smoke. She would tell her how being rational and direct is just cantonese culture. I of course told dd I, along with a lot of HKers would find that abhorrent and it is absolutely NOT cantonese culture and that it's an excuse.

The other day my daughter's cohort had a lady come talk to them about road safety whose son had died in a car crash after drink driving. Most of her cohort, including her had cried a bit and the 2 friends called her emotional and talked about how the son deserved it and how they think the mum is attention seeking and pretentious. I of course told her that is very unkind of them and there's nothing wrong with crying.

Once my daughter was excitedly showing them a dress online that she really likes and they said that her boobs are too small for it and started comparing her to her friend who had worn the dress before to an event. She was secretly upset about it. And one of them likes making "tsk" noises at people for things as minor as something accidentally brushed past her and already apologized and apparently those are all HK cultures and not a problem if you're cantonese.

I do not agree with anything above and made that clear to dd and that they were just using HK as an excuse. However dd is still very reluctant to go for the trip and bursts into tears everytime it's mentioned. We are going because DH couldn't take more than 5 days off work, which means it would be impossible for him to come visit us in the UK. I am at such a lost and dd now hates being cantonese. Argh!

Er, what do you actually mean?

Op, a lot of other countries and cultures are less polite about appearance than we are in the UK

My family is Italian and I can't tell you how often complete strangers in the street in Itaky make direct comments to me about my weight
I am very obese nowadays but when I was younger I was more in rhe overweight category most of the time.

Old women would come up behind me and make passing jokes about having to get past my fat bum etc or people would just bmake comment to their friends or to as they passed about my weight . This did happen mostly in the cities, which luckily I didn't spend too much time in. Family almost all commented on my weight when I first arrived for my holidays there.

As a teenager and young person I hated it,and it contributed to my being much happier in lots of ways in the UK. Nowadays I just ignore it or say neutral but firm something back.

I'd say, it is more that the UK has a superficially more polite culture than most other countries myself . This had positives and minuses and looks like it might be changing anyway

She has 1-2 friends in HK and she thinks they are the exception. Those 2 girls are the only cantonese girls in her life in the majority of time.

OP, this isn’t to do with Cantonese people.

She is being bullied. Stop focussing on the most
ridiculous of things and help her!

I would just emphasise that you’re going so she can spend time with her father and that that it is not your experience of the culture but you would be with her to defend her if anyone was rude to her there. Also I would say to her that if this behaviour/attitude is something that upsets her so much and she dislikes then why is she tolerating experiencing it from her friends here. I would try to steer her away from these girls and get her into after school clubs etc where she can socialise with different people.

These girls are absolutely not her friends. They are toxic and controlling.

They are brainwashing her, and It's nothing to do with being Cantonese.

But you said she knows HK really well and went there last year? That she could go places by herself.

So why all of a sudden does she believe these girls rather than her own experiences? Surely she interacted with people in her previous stays. Or has she only met "exceptions" like her friends and family?
There must be another reason she doesnt want to go. Cause everyone else seems to be an exception except these mean girls

I always tell my daughter that friends (regardless of ethnicity or culture) should lift you up not tear you down. That they improve your life not make it hard. The same for romantic relationships too.
These girls are using culture as a way to justify their bullying behaviour towards your daughter. They are not representing the best of their Cantonese culture. They are not friends!
When your daughter speaks about her thoughts, let her speak and be heard. Gently ask how it makes her feel, take time to encourage her to dig down deep to feel it. She knows it isn't right because she is crying. She needs help identifying that with support but without judgement.
My daughter is adopted and has been through similar with "friends" (not Cantonese though). She eventually realised that she dreaded going to school for fear of how these girls would make her feel. She dumped them and found new friends ..she laughs every day now.
It is a long, hard journey though 😢

When your daughter speaks about her thoughts, let her speak and be heard. Gently ask how it makes her feel, take time to encourage her to dig down deep to feel it. She knows it isn't right because she is crying. She needs help identifying that with support but without judgement.

🙌

Your daughter needs to point out to her "friends" that "being direct the Cantonese way" isn't an excuse for outright rudeness and lack of ordinary human consideration. If they behave that way when they're in the world of employment, telling employers that it's the Cantonese way won't save them from the sack.

But, she lived there for the overwhelming majority of her life, has recently been back, has interacted with people and is familiar with the culture. So, absolutely none of this makes sense.

I actually had to go back and check her age. This is a 17 year old, not a 7 year old. Her alleged thought processes and reactions are very,,,unusual, shall we say? As are your reactions to them.

Her friends are "mean girls". You could have a discreet word with her form teacher and ask if she could be moved away from them in class - don't know if they have seating plans in 6th form but this worked well for my daughter and her bullies. Encourage your daughter to hang out with her other friends and distance herself from these girls.

Your daughter is hanging around with two nasty girls who 'tell it like it is' and then use the 'we are only being direct, like our culture is' as an excuse. Like some nasty people in all cultures who take delight in being blunt as they 'say it how they see', even when not asked for an opinion, or when it's objectively hurtful and not constructive (no one wants to be told their books won't look as good in a dress as someone else's and no one wants to be told no one in the class likes them). Whatever the culture there is always an underlying reason for comments like this - usually insecurity, jealousy, or plain old enjoying making others feel rubbish. You need to have conversations about critical thinking with her and stop her believing everything her friends say is true, and why they are saying things that aren't nice. Why is she believing them over her own family and experiences?

Cantonese people are definitely a lot more direct and that is often a good thing IMO, but they're not mean (quite the opposite in general) and it seems like these girls are just not very nice and are hiding behind the "directness" excuse.

Did these girls also grow up in HK? I ask because often you find that when people emigrate, cultural traits can become more engrained, almost as though they are worried that they'll lose their cultural identity if they don't do these things.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this (and her friends do sound harsh and unsympathetic to say the least), reading your OP, I was massively impressed by your daughter’s own morals, empathy and humanity. That’s not always the case with teenage girls. I think you should be proud of her for that. It will help her to find good friends in the future- she clearly has a strong moral compass.

I don’t know if the problem is cultural - it’s not a representative sample!

They sound vile, mean and hostile. She needs to get away from these so called friends. Or you need to speak to their parents, or indeed them to tell them how nasty they are. I wouldn’t have my child anywhere near them. Could you possibly move back to HK where her dad and friends are.

People like you are always looking for a victim hood and excuses to blame the British. OP has said it’s her DDs friends are are NOT British that are being the negative and unkind ones! And you, PP are blaming the British!

Being direct and "telling it like it is", "just being honest" are things people say because they like being hurtful, know they are saying mean things and thing it gives them carte blanche to say whatever they want. While it might be part of Cantonese culture (IDK), it is a claim within many cultures for these rude people.
These two teenage girls are mean. Your daughter could direct the same brutal honesty at them but I doubt that is in her nature. She can prioritise her other friendships. The fact they are trying to get her to withdraw from those other friendships and isolate her is also typical abusive behaviour. I'm so glad she didn't listen and that she's told you what's happening.
She thinks you've said some things cos you are her mum... why not share this thread with her? There are lots of voices and differing opinions but we do have a consensus: these girls are not her friends.
You mentioned that there was another girl in that friendship group too- maybe ask her more about that friend... she doesn't seem like those two... your daughter doesn't seem like them either... maybe there are individuals within groups that are spiteful and there are others that are kind.
I worked in a sixth form and saw a few "brutally honest" girls at that age. They tended to operate in 2s or be alone... others did not tolerate the meanness or want to associate with it. I think if she takes a step back, she'll realise there are many people who are friendly with her and not her two friends. They are probably pretty unhappy in themselves.
I hope you have a lovely trip and get to experience lots of positive things out there.

Girl needs better friends.

Your DD friends are just plain mean/bratts. That happens in HK and all around the world.

This really.

Reading your messages, I think there are two entirely separate things going on: your DD raising questions about her cultural identity, and how she achieves settlement with her issues or thoughts about it all, but the larger problem is that she is caught up with a knot of unpleasant, toxic-sounding friends.

The overlap is the issue. The awful friends are whispering in her ear about cultural identity, and creating a magnifying lens of toxicity for your DD to look through and causing her significant unhappiness.

I would strongly encourage her to ditch or distance herself from these girls. Cultural and ethnicity issues aside, they are simply NOT her friends. Talk to her about healthy boundaries and focus on that before trying to resolve anything else.

Your daughter needs to find some new friends instead of hanging out with the gruesome twosome mean girls.

I have a few Cantonese friends, some born here and some in HK and while I agree they can at times be more direct than some white British people are used to I think your DDs friends are being pretty awful to her. As someone else said they are basically bullying her and claiming its due to their ethnicity which is bollocks
She needs to try and find other friends and going to HK to get away from them/see her family and reconnect to her roots is a really good idea

She's being bullied.
Are you confident the school could deal with it if reported? Will your daughter distance herself from them?
I'd suggest some counselling for her. They have knocked her down to the point she believes what they are telling her about herself. It's going to take some work to rebuild her confidence.

I wonder what these girls have been saying to her about her upcoming trip. Have they in some way made her feel she shouldn't go? They won't talk to her? People will be horrible to her there/on her return?
Something is going on there.