Do your strict British schools get good academic results?

[Briwi]

I'm a Brit who left UK for New Zealand 20 years ago (still hanging around Mumsnet like a restless spirit!)

I'm often quite shocked by some of the threads about schools and how strict they are. Detentions for doodling?! Detentions for 13 yr olds in the first week of high school because they have the wrong shoes?!! That would never happen here.

I realise this is a massive, big picture question, but just to focus in on the strictness and detentions - do they help? Are they a good thing? Do they make students more successful academically?

Like any education system, NZ has it's pros and cons. I like the positive, respectful nature of education here - but it's also not terribly academically rigorous, imo.

On these threads it's only helpful to compare schools with a similar intake. A relaxed selective school with good grades doesn't demonstrate that all schools should be relaxed and it'll be fine.

I agree that it’s most meaningful to compare similar cohorts and the fewest variables. Locally to us though, the (non-selective) schools with the best results signal their discipline and rigidity strongly to parents at open evenings and in their messaging. This is deliberate to put off parents who are more relaxed, and to attract the middle class parents who will support their DC. These are also the parents who pay the most attention to league tables etc and have half-an-eye on RG universities in year 6.

So yes, schools who are focused on discipline can get good results, but it’s not necessarily as a direct result of the discipline itself.

Something I would add is that students from our local stricter schools seem to find it easier to adapt to workplace routines.

I intentionally swerved the "outstanding" and really strict local school for my kids. DD1 academically would have flown at it, but would have been miserable and struggled socially (ASD), and all the top grade GCSEs in the world won't outweigh coming out with slightly lesser grades but some social skills and friendships. As for DD2 (multiple SEND but also a real need to people please and rule follow) - it would have destroyed her and she'd have been so busy worrying about following all the rules that she'd never have learnt anything!

So we went for what on paper is less academically stellar - but the relationships between the staff and pupils have a real warmth and there's a joy and spark about the place - and yep, sometimes DD1 ends up in a detention, and sometimes the uniform isn't immaculate - but it's by far the better choice for my kids.

Michaela-clones would have killed them.

I mean, how to judge? But the UK is above NZ in the Pisa rankings. And the top countries are all East Asian countries, which I imagine have strict schooling. worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pisa-scores-by-country

This just shows how important it is to pick the school that suits the child best rather than the "best school" in the area. My daughter just started Year 7 at the local school with the reputation of being the strictest and the most academic one. The expectations for behaviour are very high and that alone (well advertised as previous poster mentioned) scared away a number of parents and children in the Year 6 cohort. It is very early days of course but my daughter is absolutely thriving so far. She is autistic and has a very strong sense of justice. She struggled massively with the inconsistences she saw at her relaxed primary. I feel like at this very strict school she can finally relax knowing what the rules and that they are applied in the same way by everyone instead of wondering if the rules can change from teacher to teacher. With this out of the way, she is able to really focus on school work. She is absolutely loving it so far.

@6thformoptionsThat makes far more sense!

Detention for not having a pen is variable. I worked in one school where students had to prove they had:

a pen
a pencil
a ruler

This was checked at the start of the day. If they don't have the equipment they were sent to the office to borrow the equipment. So if a child turns up later without a pen they will get a sanction.

Obviously if the pen runs out in the middle of the lesson then they are not sanctioned.

Apologies - I was on my mobile which is never a good idea with spreadsheets!