Do your strict British schools get good academic results?

[Briwi]

I'm a Brit who left UK for New Zealand 20 years ago (still hanging around Mumsnet like a restless spirit!)

I'm often quite shocked by some of the threads about schools and how strict they are. Detentions for doodling?! Detentions for 13 yr olds in the first week of high school because they have the wrong shoes?!! That would never happen here.

I realise this is a massive, big picture question, but just to focus in on the strictness and detentions - do they help? Are they a good thing? Do they make students more successful academically?

Like any education system, NZ has it's pros and cons. I like the positive, respectful nature of education here - but it's also not terribly academically rigorous, imo.

No, she definitely doesn't manipulate the catchment which is a 6 mile radius from the school; a huge area but presumably so that everyone in Brent is eligible. Then the allocation is by lottery. Effectively, children actually come from within 3 miles of the school. However the overall ability of the intake is well above average.

There a definitely good things about the school. And lack of fannying around and work on the curriculum are two of them. One negative is that so few children take the triple science award. I still think it's slightly cultlike!

I grew up in Uk and we had detentions but not like it seems to be now based on here, they also seem to be way more strict about school uniform. My kids are in a different education system, way more relaxed, no uniform, no detention, very little discipline at all really, no emphasis on grades or tests. I have no idea which is best though! I think they just expect the learning process to take longer here, reaching each stage and progressing to the next stage without too much pressure. Education is free here until Master’s so if you stay at it you will end up well educated!

The school in my city modelled on Michaela gets brilliant results and is second in England for value-added ie progress 8. However, another school not far-away has been placed 4th in a more rounded analysis carried out by The Telegraph based on eight publicly available measures. This school has no uniform, is very creative, and its most recent Ofsted report noted there is very little low level disruption. Thank goodness there is, at the moment, room for different approaches in our state system.

A point worth noting (going back to the OP) is that according to the PISA rankings NZ is - comparatively speaking - has declined over the last 15 years while England has improved and is now above NZ. This is although NZ schools functioned much more normally during covid and although NZ's education system keeps a sharper eye on the PISA rankings than England does. If you just looked at PISA you would conclude that both countries' education systems were doing fine, but it would ignore that in NZ there isn't a lot else going on.

NZ's school curriculum NCEA is in the process of being scrapped. It's never been very well liked and there's always been ways for schools and teachers to game it so that kids get their qualifications. It's been an enormous 25 year policy blunder. NZ's schools used to be very good indeed. But because it's a small country it's easy for the wrong people to get in charge, form a consensus and make a mess.

The point is this: it's a hell of a lot easier to dispense with rules and expectations and to take things very easy when you don't have to push the children.

Here are some reflections from a teacher for those interested in reading more. He mentions the Reformation. I'm surprised it's still taught in schools here.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2025/09/guest_post_goodbye_ncea_farewell_get_lost_good_riddance.html

I would consider the best results to be the most impressive, which Michaela's are.

I think Scotland is heading down a similar path to NZ, by the sounds of things.

True- I can't disagree with this, and every ND child has their own set of things they find extra hard, meaning there has to be some latitude. But I think it's easier for any child to focus on those tricky things when there's a generally disciplined atmosphere. Not just schools but anywhere I think.

The blogpost says the genesis of NCEA was in Scotland so it may not be that new a thing there.

But yes, I've noticed that England now outperforms Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland whereas a decade or so ago it was behind them.

I think the 2 crucial issues to enable a school to get good results are:

• stopping applications from families who are not supportive of their children’s education or of the school by spelling out the deal clearly: if you come here, you sign up to the rules.

• eliminating classroom disruption which robs many working class children of educational opportunities.

Yes but that’s not really an achievement as grammar schools already select for the most academic.
A grade 8 from a grammar cannot be compared to a grade 8 from the secondary modern in the same area (if parents are honest with themselves they would admit that their grammar child would not have got the same results at a bog-standard comp).

It's nearly all serial miscreants in my school. About 5 or 6 in every class. Getting the pen back intact is 50:50 often they come back dismantled, or more accurately they are left on the desk that way. I've seen a child, directed to borrow a pen from a tray, pick up one to use, and put three more in their pocket.

Similar happened in my school once. Kid was escorted out by the police.

Yes, no matter how 'excellent' the school, it may not suit your child.

Is there a league table of these schools that are ranked as 1st 2nd 3rd for progress 8? I've been to at least 3 open days where they all state they are in the top 5 in one County, so I do take that with a pinch of salt.

Progress 8 scores are publicly available and really easy to find on D of E website.

This shows the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Poor people are perfectly capable of behaving well. Look at Micheala school. It is in Brent! The kids are generally poor.

If there aren't 3 in the top 5 in Kent then I can state with some confidence there's some confusion between definitions or ranking being presented to parents.

Yes, I’m in total agreement.

I feel like the problem is that every school is so differnet with differnet demographics. It is hard to say if the strict school getting result is better because they are strict or because it is in a middle class suburbs. Also what is considered strict?

We also tend to think what is familiar to us is the best. I'm Finnish and my partner is british. I'm looking at the schools with a shock and horror and my partner is like "yeah, thats how it is" and we are both convinced what is familiar to us, is the best.

And as an aside, the DofE site doesn't appear to have any Independent or Private schools to compare.
AI tells me the top 5 in the UK are not, in fact, in Kent.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=all-england&for=secondary

Yup, none of the schools where I've heard they are in the top 5 are listed in the highest here. Also several conflating "Value Added" with Progress 8 and saying the same. Looking at a mix of state and independent/privates these terms do get thrown about as shorthand for "best teachers".

Private schools don't have progress 8 because they don't sit SATs and it's a measure of progress from KS2 SATs to GCSEs.

IGCSEs also don't count for progress 8.

Michaela is really not in middle class suburbs though it it?! So that can’t be the reason!

lots of strict schools are in poor areas eg Newham and get good results.

Michaela has 31.9% disadvantaged kids while the national average is 27.3%