To feel out of my depth with teen DD?

[ChrisReaPoppedAnEggInMyBath]

I type this from officially the end of my tether and when I say I'm desperate for advice, I mean I'm DESPERATE and would welcome thoughts and suggestions before I completely lose my mind/marbles/will to live.

My DD is a glorious creature and I adore the bones of her, but I'm questioning everything from our parenting style and our ability to do right by her and for her (and her sister, which is a whole other story) and I suspect I need some tough love from MN as I can't see the wood for the trees.

DD is 13 and has ADHD which manifests itself with Demand Avoidance and Rejection Sensitivity Disphoria, which means that her setting is that everyone and everything is against her. Growing up, she has experienced a lot of teasing, bullying and comments about her height (she's always been the smallest in her year by some way) and this has shaped her attitude and response to life. She regards any comment as a potential attack on her (when they very rarely are) and while she seems feisty and brave, she's actually the very opposite.

Recently we moved her school - for countless reasons but also in response to her request as she'd had a tough time over the past couple of years and we all agreed a fresh start would be good, and she was on board with this. She saw all the benefits of the move, and seemed to understand the reality of the move and that it would take time to settle in and become familiar. She was nervous, but was brilliant in tackling it head on - we've told her countless times how impressed we are and how proud of her.

She's now been in her new school for a couple of weeks and despite coming out smiling and with lots of positive chat (and really positive feedback from the teachers) and new friendships forming, she's now decided that she hates it and, having been off a few days with a horrible bug, she's said she won't be going back on Monday.

She initially said she wanted to go back to her old school, but is now campaigning to be homeschooled with online classes as she says, the education system is failing and it's not right for her. She's sent me case studies and links to back up why online learning is better for her.

This is all repeated behaviour. She rejects or reacts against things in a heartbeat, and it can be anything from a particular meal, outfit or TV programme to a holiday destination, activity, friendship or in this case, school. It's like she has to have something to lash out at or fight against. She goes to the immediate big reaction (I HATE IT) but then it's so hard to move her from that viewpoint. She can't (not won't) see any other perspective or the bigger picture, it's like the shutters have come down.

We've asked what she'd like to change about school ('all of it'), what doesn't she like ('all of it'), what's good about it ('none of it'), and what in particular makes her so unhappy ('the environment'), but we see her when she comes out and she's genuinely OK. We appreciate it's not going to feel familiar and safe yet, but she's just not wanting to give it time - preferring to stay away and not engage with it.

What doesn't help is that she won't talk face to face, so to go deeper, we have to converse by message. She won't talk, she doesn't want to talk to a counsellor or a therapist, and instead she focusses on something new/different which will solve all the problems.

I'm really struggling to know what to do. Our parenting style has always been to work with the kids, not just tell them what's what, but I don't think this is actually always the right thing. In my research it says kids with Demand Avoidance need to have choices and control, but how when it's something as critical as school? And, in life, we don't always have choice or control, we have to ride the waves and be brave and do things we don't want to do.

The fact is she's not given it a chance to become familiar and great, she's given it a few days and made her mind up, and this isn't how you can go through life.
We've tried all different approaches - gentle encouragement, telling her how proud we are of her, cheering her in and celebrating wins, getting cross and telling her she HAS to go. In desperation to try something different I even shouted and said how she would be going in, school wasn't optional, and that I would pick her up and carry her in if it came to it. Not my finest parenting but I was desperate to try and get through to her, and she then told me all the ways in which I don't understand her, or even try to, and how I judge her and it makes her feel worse.

We've always tried to be her biggest champion, but I can't help but feel we're continually going wrong. Any ideas or suggestions for what to do next?

Thank you so much for this.

It's two weeks in a new setting that on day one, she announced 'I had a great day' and was looking forward to going back. Day two, the same. Day three, the girls she had been paired with to introduce her to the school was off, and I think she slipped through the cracks that day and felt lost and out of place.

Day four, a very tricky start - she didn't want to go - but she went in and admitted she'd had a good day. Day five, six, seven - all 'great' days and went in smiling and came out smiling. Then the weekend and day eight, didn't want to go in and wanted to go back to her old school because she missed her friends. Day nine, poorly, and hasn't been back as she's been feeling rotten.

This is why I'm struggling to accept it's not the right place for her - she wasn't pretending, she really did seem to enjoy it. She wouldn't hesitate to tell us if she'd had a bad day - she doesn't hold back.

That is not the law.

Parents can request an EHCNA even if their DC is at an independent school.

The duty under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 to provide a suitable full-time education to compulsory school aged pupils who wouldn’t otherwise receive it, including because of illness/SEN, still applies when the child is in an independent school.

But they mask. She was showing you what she thought you wanted to see…..

But it is the truth and not a lie
There IS a two term notice period
How are her parents supposed to afford an online school (thousands of pounds a year) whilst also paying out for the unused private school place? For most people this would be impossible.
The school she is rejecting is already what many parents of ND children would give their eye teeth for ie small class sizes and individualised.
It’s catch 22 for the parents as they have to work to afford to pay for non mainstream state education options and yet surely they cannot leave a 13 year old home alone all day every day
oh and some people think they should also pay for therapy.
I just can’t understand how this is practically an option unless you are a millionaire

We know her so well and if she's not happy, there are obvious signs. Going in and coming out of school, she's been animated, enthusiastic and full of chat with her sister, and on the phone to friends. I really don't think this was fake.

DH has wondered if she's enjoyed it, and now feels disloyal for enjoying it, and that's partly fuelled the change of heart, especially now the dopamine hit of new and shiny has worn off and it's becoming a new normal.

And the LA may theoretically have a duty but how will it take for them to put anything in place. It will surely be many months of battle with her losing out on learning.

I’m trying to support her as much as I can, but I don’t know what is teenage hormones, what is anxiety, what is ADHD, what is a normal fear of starting something new?

OP, I really feel for you. And I don't want to scare you - but you're writing like someone who's only just starting to apprehend what the ADHD brain is like, and how you might need to support your daughter. It's a big learning journey for you as well, you can't rush it, but I am afraid I am going to freak you out because I think you need to lean into this and take some action.

I wish someone had told me, when I was in the same place.

The advice I would give, from having come through the first shock of diagnosis, school avoidance, burnout... is that you will need to let go of the idea that she's going to settle in, calm down a bit, and everything will be back to normal. I'm really sorry to say it and I honestly don't want to spook you, but your normal has gone. Even the "But I've paid foe 2 terms and it's not realistic to waste that money!!" comes from your old life.

A ND child who's starting to say "Nope, I cannot go to school" doesnt just chill out and go back to how she was before. The scary bit is that they can go from a mild "no, I don't like it much" to complete burnout and self harm, in a matter of weeks, if the right support doesn't start to come in.

It utterly sucks for you, because it's a shock, and lots of extra work for you. But I think you have to- now, before it gets worse - do the following.

1. Read loads of Naomi Fisher courses. Follow That Parent and The Autistic Sendco on Facebook (I know DD is not autistic but still helpful). Start to steep yourself in the wisdom of people who are really helpful. Otherwise you will get the classic Ebsa guidance type bollocks which tell you to force her in, and you need to get clued up to advocate for her, sometimes even politely disagreeing with people like teachers or SEND staff.

1. Get an OT. Pay privately if you need - is there one attached to the school? Could she have OT in the school day? How about a psychotherapist? Who diagnosed her? go back to them for the next wave of support.

1. Work with the school sendco. Does your DD have an individual learning plan (private schools make these)? Warning! Private schools sell themselves on being low demand environments because they are small classes and an intense, quite rich, curriculum. However, they are often not really, setting behavioural expectations which are far stricter than other schools. Uniform, eye contact, no shouting, sitting still. The ethos is not inherently inclusive and they will gaslight you to tell you that it is. You need to get a sense of how the sendco sees things and what is available to help her anxiety. Does she have inattentive or hyper ADHD?

1. Does the send team think you should apply for ehcp - or maybe do that in a few month's time when you know more. I was ready with an astonishingly great pack of materials and knew exactly what to do, when I did it - however, two months before, I wss clueless, so it really is a steep learning curve.

I hope this is helpful, I don't want to be officious and know it all, but I've been thinking about your post and I am worried that you are going to be faced with a bigger change than you currently think is coming. Best of luck x

Thank you and yes, private school AND online is not an option. Neither is one of us easing back on work hours to facilitate online learning while paying for both.

As this has all kicked off mainly since last weekend and then she's been off, we haven't had chance to test the school's response to ND children, but everything we've seen, heard and had mentioned by others suggests they excel - they have more pastoral and SEND support in her year than her old school had in the entire school.

Needless to say, they are my first call on Monday morning.

also agree 100% that she can be enjoying it a bit AND masking AND overwhelmed AND not really know what it is that is the problem- it could be a whole raft of sensory things that haven't really been explored yet or even brought to her conscious attention.

No, not an immediate fix. An EHCP takes time. All the more reason to do in now rather than waiting months. Section 19 provision is quicker, although may still take a parent challenging the LA. Even if OP’s DD remains at the current school, it is clear she needs more support at school so OP should look at requesting an EHCP regardless.

She sounds exactly like me as a teen although my adhd wasn’t diagnosed until my 30s.

I hated school, was bullied etc. no one understood and I couldn’t cope at school. I didn’t do my GCSEs as the bullying got so bad and the school blamed me! (I was physically assaulted and put in hospital during a school lesson)

homeschooling would have saved me.

give her the chance and try homeschooling

Thank you so much - this is so incredibly helpful and I will look all of the things you've suggested and take on board every word of advice you've given. I'm so grateful for the things you've shared, thank you.

Just for transparency, while I appreciate I've only mentioned my younger daughter's diagnosis, but my older DD has combined ADHD (she was diagnosed at 12) and I was also late diagnosed (at 47). I have done a lot research into it for my own sake as much as my DDs, so I do have some understanding of the challenges. But, what I am I rapidly learning is that my experience is completely different to DD1, and just as dramatically different to DD2 so while I have some insight, I'm absolutely learning as I go.

In her previous school, DD2 has never required, or showed that she had any need for any particular support so while she had a diagnosis, she didn't require any support other than a bit of understanding around reminders not to talk so much.

This. It’s a long hard journey of discovery. And it tilts the wrong way all the time.

She is saying she enjoyed school because they say what they want you to hear. They all do this. Mine did it. She still refused to go a bit later.

Please listen to some of the posts on here. She isn’t going to return to what she was. This will go on for years until she recovers and becomes the person she will be.

We waited and waited for ours to return to ‘normal’ 5 years later we are still waiting. She’s better than she was. But still a long way to go.

This was a child that sailed through KS3 with no problems.

LA refused to assess as school hasn’t met spend criteria, and won’t, so not sure how to take it forward! But agree it’s necessary.

sorry OP did not mean to make this about us!

Go to appeal.

Wow. I’ve just realised I’m trying to achieve “normal”. Thank you for the wake up call.

Did you appeal?

There is no ‘spend criteria’. The only lawful test for an EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. Any other test, such as having to have spent £6k, 2+ APDR cycles, 2+ years behind or any other such nonsense is not lawful and not correct.

Thank you all for the really thoughtful responses, I feel even more worried but far less alone in dealing with them.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm not taking her seriously, or minimising the posts on here advising me to tread carefully. Her wellbeing is absolutely at the top of our priorities, and we won't be downplaying what she is telling us, while we navigating the logistics of the coming weeks/months.

This thread has opened my eyes to how this could be the beginning of a huge shift reflecting something much deeper and more complex, rather than what we hoped was a knee-jerk reaction to feeling uncertain and uncomfortable somewhere new. I do admit that I hope she can 'settle in and be fine' but I know this may not be the case.

She and I are currently conversing, via message, and she now knows homeschool isn't a viable option - for now at least - so she now says she wants to go back to her old school, and that it wasn't that bad.

So much to consider, and I'm so grateful for you all for sharing experience and insight.

Erm, that's not what I said. I said if she can't swallow tablets, put the contents in something else. They can tell her they're doing it!

I could have written this about my 16 year old daughter. The latter part of high school was a disaster, with school refusal, but I’m pleased to say that college is going so much better (not 6th form college, as that’s still school!). I love her to bits but her fixed mindset drives me fucking loopy. I recently treated her to getting her hair dyed at a salon. Not cheap. She’s already talking about the next colour she wants it to be. It’s like she’s never bloody happy.

@CarelessWispah Im sorry to hear of your situation too x

OP it sounds like you know a lot already, and it must be hard managing your own diagnosis too. x

JMSA, thank you for sharing.

And yes, I get it completely. I love her desperately but she can be relentless in her quest for things, but it's never enough. A different phone. A new Jellycat. A lip balm, or even a food. Then she has it, and it's briefly marvellous and then she moves onto the next thing which is bigger, better or different. Whatever she has, it's not quite right and it's hard to explain without her coming across as spoilt when I'm sure it's the constant need for that dopamine hit.

CancelthetableAlan off topic I know, but I initially thought your username was CanceltheTaliban. Very different.

OP, I know it doesn’t address the main point of your post, but as a former teacher, whenever I hear someone (parent or another teacher) say they’ve ‘tried everything’, I always think that means they’ve actually been really inconsistent, which is rarely successful, whatever the context. I know it’s very tempting to try different approaches when you’re desperate to find something that works but, personally, I think have faith in your ‘normal’ parenting style (because you sound very sensible and caring) and stick to it — whatever that might mean in this situation.
Also, good luck…

I wish I could!