To feel out of my depth with teen DD?

[ChrisReaPoppedAnEggInMyBath]

I type this from officially the end of my tether and when I say I'm desperate for advice, I mean I'm DESPERATE and would welcome thoughts and suggestions before I completely lose my mind/marbles/will to live.

My DD is a glorious creature and I adore the bones of her, but I'm questioning everything from our parenting style and our ability to do right by her and for her (and her sister, which is a whole other story) and I suspect I need some tough love from MN as I can't see the wood for the trees.

DD is 13 and has ADHD which manifests itself with Demand Avoidance and Rejection Sensitivity Disphoria, which means that her setting is that everyone and everything is against her. Growing up, she has experienced a lot of teasing, bullying and comments about her height (she's always been the smallest in her year by some way) and this has shaped her attitude and response to life. She regards any comment as a potential attack on her (when they very rarely are) and while she seems feisty and brave, she's actually the very opposite.

Recently we moved her school - for countless reasons but also in response to her request as she'd had a tough time over the past couple of years and we all agreed a fresh start would be good, and she was on board with this. She saw all the benefits of the move, and seemed to understand the reality of the move and that it would take time to settle in and become familiar. She was nervous, but was brilliant in tackling it head on - we've told her countless times how impressed we are and how proud of her.

She's now been in her new school for a couple of weeks and despite coming out smiling and with lots of positive chat (and really positive feedback from the teachers) and new friendships forming, she's now decided that she hates it and, having been off a few days with a horrible bug, she's said she won't be going back on Monday.

She initially said she wanted to go back to her old school, but is now campaigning to be homeschooled with online classes as she says, the education system is failing and it's not right for her. She's sent me case studies and links to back up why online learning is better for her.

This is all repeated behaviour. She rejects or reacts against things in a heartbeat, and it can be anything from a particular meal, outfit or TV programme to a holiday destination, activity, friendship or in this case, school. It's like she has to have something to lash out at or fight against. She goes to the immediate big reaction (I HATE IT) but then it's so hard to move her from that viewpoint. She can't (not won't) see any other perspective or the bigger picture, it's like the shutters have come down.

We've asked what she'd like to change about school ('all of it'), what doesn't she like ('all of it'), what's good about it ('none of it'), and what in particular makes her so unhappy ('the environment'), but we see her when she comes out and she's genuinely OK. We appreciate it's not going to feel familiar and safe yet, but she's just not wanting to give it time - preferring to stay away and not engage with it.

What doesn't help is that she won't talk face to face, so to go deeper, we have to converse by message. She won't talk, she doesn't want to talk to a counsellor or a therapist, and instead she focusses on something new/different which will solve all the problems.

I'm really struggling to know what to do. Our parenting style has always been to work with the kids, not just tell them what's what, but I don't think this is actually always the right thing. In my research it says kids with Demand Avoidance need to have choices and control, but how when it's something as critical as school? And, in life, we don't always have choice or control, we have to ride the waves and be brave and do things we don't want to do.

The fact is she's not given it a chance to become familiar and great, she's given it a few days and made her mind up, and this isn't how you can go through life.
We've tried all different approaches - gentle encouragement, telling her how proud we are of her, cheering her in and celebrating wins, getting cross and telling her she HAS to go. In desperation to try something different I even shouted and said how she would be going in, school wasn't optional, and that I would pick her up and carry her in if it came to it. Not my finest parenting but I was desperate to try and get through to her, and she then told me all the ways in which I don't understand her, or even try to, and how I judge her and it makes her feel worse.

We've always tried to be her biggest champion, but I can't help but feel we're continually going wrong. Any ideas or suggestions for what to do next?

Most of these meds are capsules with powder in. You can mix the powder in anything really. Not ideal as it is easier to ensure the whole dose is gone in a capsule, but needs must.

The ADHD meds I know of are all slow-release and don't have an 'inside' so to speak but we have mentioned her inability to take tablets to the clinic.

Meds are very important part of managing many dc’s ADHD and I would always recommend families try them. But they aren’t a magic wand, it can take time and patience to find the right meds and the right doses, there are issues of sleep and growth that can be impacted by them, they can make the post school crash worse.
I would alongside meds be considering OT and or therapy for your dc and some parent coaching for parents. Additude is a good online resource, although it’s based in the US.
Focus on remaining as calm as you can regardless of how stressed she is getting.
Keep your own boundaries around school attendance as calmly and firmly as possible, definitely as a long term goal even if it’s a bit rockier in the short term.

This is where we are currently. An out-and-out no results in her kicking back harder ('Well, I'm not going') whereas I'm trying a slightly more neutral approach. I've said that it's a lot to think about and I need you to know we're listening to you and reminding her that in the meantime, she needs to be at school for lots of reasons, but we are committed to finding the right thing for her.

Which, I believe, is the school she's now at.

🤣

I have one like this. She’s on meds but still similar. Sertraline improved her ability to talk in top of the meds. She’s identical in every way to yours.

However, she went into burnout at about 15, and is still struggling with it a bit now. School refusal was the first thing.

If you want my honest opinion it’s unlikely she will go back. This needs to be understood as she wants to go but can’t. Our advice was to try and encourage her in. Which we did and this resulted in self harm.

She really needs an EHCP.

Arse I'm so sorry to hear your DD has struggled so badly. And thank you for your words, they are appreciated.

I so hope your DD is doing better now?

She’s better than she was..Starts Uni on Monday but still overwhelmed easily.

If you push your Dd in she will get worse. It’s not necessarily PDA. It’s neurodivergent burnout. You need to reduce demand as much as possible. Including school if required. It’s the only way out.

I did find paying mine at 13 would result in some engagement with medics/counsellors etc. Shameful, but got a result.

She was out of school for 18 months.

Hi
I personally think there is so much pressure on kids going to school... let alone nurodiverse children.
I really struggled at secondary. I've found out that I have adhd and autism very recently, age 39.
I would have been so much happier if I want pressured into what is considered "normal".

Not sure if this will help, (or if you've already read it) but I read a book recently about a woman's experience with her dd having Pathological demand avoidance. It was helpful to me, as my dd has autism and possibly adhd and exhibits signs of pda. I'll post link below:

https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/pathological-demand-avoidance-syndrome-my-daughter-is-not-naughty-book-jane-alison-sherwin-9781849056144?sku=GOR007773676&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19545754761&gclid=CjwKCAjwobnGBhBNEiwAu2mpFGT63sOtapJjmBT0fdqw9nuZWwiA0fOFjsyeoiTgq90nGiPyJ1nyDRoC-XMQAvD_BwE

Good luck x

From experience certain ADHD meds do come in liquid form.

There are certainly some you can dissolve in water. My psychiatrist told me to do it.

Sorry to hear - this sounds really hard for you. It sounds very similar to what happened with my daughter 2 and half years ago (when she was 12). At that point we didn't know she was ND - she seemed fine in school, but what we noticed were all the things you mentioned - demand avoidance, fixed viewpoints, unwillingness to talk, unable to describe the problem, argumentative and irrational at times.

Eventually sleep became a problem and she was experiencing headaches and nausea too. We kept pushing her into school but after several months, she crashed and couldn't do anything - not school, not life, not anything. We now know she'd hit burnout - she's since been diagosed with autism and has experienced a very severe autistic burnout which she is still recoverning from. Recovery is very slow.

If I could turn back time, and know what I know now, I would have stopped sending her to school and given her time to recover - reducing demands and taking the pressure off from all areas of her life.

There is a website launching the end of this month, I believe, from the Barriers to Education project and it will have a big section on burnout, why it happens etc. barrierstoeducation.co.uk/
Burnout is really becoming a very common problem, especially for ND young people, and needs much more awareness.

This is hugely relevant is it not?
We all have to live in the real world ND or not and the reality is surely that you cannot afford to pay school fees for 2 terms AND employ a private tutor even if you thought it was the right thing to do.
You involved her in the decision so it was her decision too and surely it is relevant to her to know that you have to pay these fees so it isn’t a credible option to back out now.
I mean adjustments for ND have to be reasonable ones and incurring thousands of pounds worth of fees and then expecting tutoring as well is wholly unreasonable and cannot be done. It would not be helping her to think that all things can be magically resolved when they can’t.

She’s 13 years old and ND. The only thing she’ll be thinking about is how to avoid anything that triggers huge anxiety.

Reduced timetable might help - Friday designated Work From Home day or something similar.

Absolutely, I don't want either of them to think that money isn't hard worked for and can be just thrown around because that absolutely isn't the case. To be able to send both of them, we are making a lot of sacrifices, but we do believe it's the right thing for them both - academically and for them as individuals, and a lot of thought, care and consideration has gone into the decision.

The reason I'm not hammering home the financial side is that I don't ever want either of them to feel that the money we spent added a pressure. Does that make sense? I want them both to be happy in school for them and their wellbeing, not because we've invested hard-earned money in it.

But I do think emphasising the point that we can't afford for any other options right now is a solid one - it's a fact and as such, it can't be disagreed with or interpreted as an emotional response.

Thanks for your thoughts, they're appreciated.

Thank you so much for your honesty and sharing your experience. My DD also struggles with sleep - often awake into the wee small hours, so this really does resonate.

I'm so sorry your DD went through this, I really hope she's doing well now. I will take a look at the website you mention, thank you so much.

Burnout does sound like it could be at play, thank you for sharing. And yes, I'm not above shameful tactics to get her to engage with the right support. I used bribery plenty of times when she and her siblings were toddlers and if it works, great!

This is SO helpful, thank you. I've just ordered the book as I'm grateful for anything that will help me better understand what is going on in her mind. I really appreciate you taking the time to share it - thank you so much!

Thank you - you're so right. My older daughter also had ADHD meds and while they help her to stop feeling so overwhelmed and overrun by emotion, they don't work miracles, but it's clear this needs to be a consideration for DD.

And yes, keeping calm and trying to keep boundaries are really great advice, thank you. It's so hard when all you want to do is the right thing, but you're terrified of making it worse.

Oh bore off.

Also the OP literally says in her first post that her DD has a sister.

Sorry Arse, good luck for your daughter on Monday. I shall be quietly cheering her on from afar.

Meds will absolutely help with this, as a parent who was totally against them previously as we ‘managed’ once school refusal started around puberty, as a last resort we tried the medication. I now see that my child needs the medication- she’s much happier, doing well in school and the ability to focus, I actually feel guilty for the years we didn’t have the medication. Seen no side effects whatsoever

Thank you so much, this really does help.

I also have ADHD, it manifest about the same as your daughter (I am also very very hyper). From my experience I would say do not move her anymore ,the first move (unless she was actually bullied)was a mistake, once I knew I could get something I would try to get it again (perceived hurts and the challenge to get you to do what she wants). My son also has ADHD (of course) and really struggled at school ( apparently everyone was mean even tho he looked quite popular), what we did was, have a routine as soon as he came home, I gave him a snack and gave him 1-2 hours of solitude (don't pester her, sensory overload at school, home is a safe space) and then came to him with a something trivial. 13 is hard for EVERYONE so it is not ADHD but teen hormones kicking in, nothing you can do, ride the wave and hope for the best.
I feel I should mention that ADHD like to attach itself to some lovely issues, I had bulimia and DS OCD, be on the lookout!