To feel out of my depth with teen DD?

[ChrisReaPoppedAnEggInMyBath]

I type this from officially the end of my tether and when I say I'm desperate for advice, I mean I'm DESPERATE and would welcome thoughts and suggestions before I completely lose my mind/marbles/will to live.

My DD is a glorious creature and I adore the bones of her, but I'm questioning everything from our parenting style and our ability to do right by her and for her (and her sister, which is a whole other story) and I suspect I need some tough love from MN as I can't see the wood for the trees.

DD is 13 and has ADHD which manifests itself with Demand Avoidance and Rejection Sensitivity Disphoria, which means that her setting is that everyone and everything is against her. Growing up, she has experienced a lot of teasing, bullying and comments about her height (she's always been the smallest in her year by some way) and this has shaped her attitude and response to life. She regards any comment as a potential attack on her (when they very rarely are) and while she seems feisty and brave, she's actually the very opposite.

Recently we moved her school - for countless reasons but also in response to her request as she'd had a tough time over the past couple of years and we all agreed a fresh start would be good, and she was on board with this. She saw all the benefits of the move, and seemed to understand the reality of the move and that it would take time to settle in and become familiar. She was nervous, but was brilliant in tackling it head on - we've told her countless times how impressed we are and how proud of her.

She's now been in her new school for a couple of weeks and despite coming out smiling and with lots of positive chat (and really positive feedback from the teachers) and new friendships forming, she's now decided that she hates it and, having been off a few days with a horrible bug, she's said she won't be going back on Monday.

She initially said she wanted to go back to her old school, but is now campaigning to be homeschooled with online classes as she says, the education system is failing and it's not right for her. She's sent me case studies and links to back up why online learning is better for her.

This is all repeated behaviour. She rejects or reacts against things in a heartbeat, and it can be anything from a particular meal, outfit or TV programme to a holiday destination, activity, friendship or in this case, school. It's like she has to have something to lash out at or fight against. She goes to the immediate big reaction (I HATE IT) but then it's so hard to move her from that viewpoint. She can't (not won't) see any other perspective or the bigger picture, it's like the shutters have come down.

We've asked what she'd like to change about school ('all of it'), what doesn't she like ('all of it'), what's good about it ('none of it'), and what in particular makes her so unhappy ('the environment'), but we see her when she comes out and she's genuinely OK. We appreciate it's not going to feel familiar and safe yet, but she's just not wanting to give it time - preferring to stay away and not engage with it.

What doesn't help is that she won't talk face to face, so to go deeper, we have to converse by message. She won't talk, she doesn't want to talk to a counsellor or a therapist, and instead she focusses on something new/different which will solve all the problems.

I'm really struggling to know what to do. Our parenting style has always been to work with the kids, not just tell them what's what, but I don't think this is actually always the right thing. In my research it says kids with Demand Avoidance need to have choices and control, but how when it's something as critical as school? And, in life, we don't always have choice or control, we have to ride the waves and be brave and do things we don't want to do.

The fact is she's not given it a chance to become familiar and great, she's given it a few days and made her mind up, and this isn't how you can go through life.
We've tried all different approaches - gentle encouragement, telling her how proud we are of her, cheering her in and celebrating wins, getting cross and telling her she HAS to go. In desperation to try something different I even shouted and said how she would be going in, school wasn't optional, and that I would pick her up and carry her in if it came to it. Not my finest parenting but I was desperate to try and get through to her, and she then told me all the ways in which I don't understand her, or even try to, and how I judge her and it makes her feel worse.

We've always tried to be her biggest champion, but I can't help but feel we're continually going wrong. Any ideas or suggestions for what to do next?

I sympathise with all of this. My dd is 14 and just diagnosed adhd with suspected asd / pda. We can also only communicate by text and I still usually get a response saying STOP! We started ahdh meds this week and I cannot get any feedback as to how they are going. on the face of it she is ok at school and has friends but it came out in the assesment how much she hates it. She is still going into school but I don’t think it would take much for it to swing into school refusal.

she has plenty of friends who are home schooled / alternative provision / managed move etc.

I think along with starting meds OP, which I highly recommend, I'd get her to maybe see a therapist she's still quite young, so something like DBT but done through play therapy could be useful, but maybe find someone who can do both DBT with play and not, so she can mix it up through sessions based on whatever she wants to do. It's helpful to learn emotional regulation, also to help with RSD and for her to have an outlet.

You've done everything with the school already to her adjustments from that side, so keep going with that. Do the school have adjustments for her? As in like how they give her instructions, breaks/time out card, etc. As obviously she already has smaller groups and things like that which are great.

On the home school, I wouldn't go for it, she's had a few days off and makes sense she's nervous, you take her in, maybe give her something to look forward to at the end of the school day, ice cream, going to the library if she likes that or something else and also maybe organise some more play dates with people in school, so that outside of school she's still having a good association with school. Also try and get her into clubs like maybe drama and sports as well, something for all her energy and also to help her build confidence, leadership skills etc. I'd let her try almost anything, rugby, netball, maybe gymnastics, athletics maybe some of the throwing sports like discuss or something, or the field ones as well (long jump, etc). Just for fun but it could help.

If you haven’t already do look at the PDAsociety org uk website. It has useful parenting tips on communication and Dr Naomi Fisher social media, books and talks. Good luck she sounds like she is at risk of burn out having been there with my now 14yr we ended up home educating as we had to prioritise mental health at 12-13yrs & now they are back studying iGCSEs at home.

It’s more likely to do with increased demand, rather than hormones.

What? How is two weeks only a “heartbeat” and “not giving it a chance”?

She tried your new school idea. You agree she gave it her best shot and now you are refusing to listen to her. I understand why she doesn’t want to talk deeply about the new school- she knows that is just an excuse for you to try to talk her around to giving it more time.

Listen to her, let her do the school online. She is more likely to succeed that way than by being forced into a school that isn’t working.

and whatever you do DO NOT LIE to her like some pp are saying about how she can’t stay home and start doing schoolwork from home because of contract notice periods. The truth will come out and when a person with ADHD rejection sensitivity is betrayed or lied to by the only people in the world they thought they could trust- i.e their parents- this has led to mental breakdowns, suicide attempts and lifelong trust issues. This is what you risk with ‘white lies’ for convenience because an ND person doesn’t react to them like a NT person does,

This is so true.

Since when is DBT (for people with EuPD) recommended for ADHD? And when would a child with ADHD have the focus and time to take on yet more demands on them? You don’t seem to understand that “hyperactivity” in the ADHD does not mean “more energy than average so can get more done”

In fact, ADHD causes the opposite. Sufferers struggle to get the average amount of work and activities done to an acceptable standard,

And this🩷

Reduce demand not increase it.

You absolutely cannot give prescription drugs to a competent 13yo without their consent! This is unethical and illegal. The way the child has researched online schools, proposed it to her parents and even sent studies supporting it for children with ADHD indicates she likely meets Gillik competence. Which means it is ultimately her choice when it comes to any medical treatment.

See bottom of p3 onwards:

https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/BriefguideCapacityandconsentinunder18s%20v3.pdf#page3

So basically lie and then set her up to fail. Nice.

Be careful you aren’t stringing her along with false hope. If you’ve made up your mind, don’t be saying you are still seriously considering doing an online school just to keep peace.

What you believe about her school is only 0.01% of what the school is actually like. You aren’t there all day every day as a 13yo student with ADHD.

Her opinions on whether this school is good for her are vastly more informed than yours.

But you felt fine trying out your idea of a new school. Why does it matter where she got the idea from? She has also done the research. This isn’t an impulse on her part as it has endured.

Almost everything you’ve posted is based on your incorrect comprehension of the OPs posts:

• the DD is unable to take tablets, hence the mixing in with liquids - no suggestion of this being a way to sneak meds without her consent
• changing schools was at the DDs request, not the OP choosing to push her there against her will
• it is not a lie to say that there is a notice period - they’re on the hook for two terms of fees, legally, and therefore paying for online school as well is not going to happen until at least after that point

On top of that, two weeks is a very short space of time to be in a new setting - that’s a fact. It may be enough time to have decided she really isn’t going to be happy there, but it also might not have been long enough to give it a fair chance. It’s reasonable to ask that she gives it a bit longer before jumping into a different option. What if she decides after two weeks of online school that she doesn’t like that either? School is harder for ND young people and there are going to be significant differences in how they manage individual situations, but equally there are things that we all have to try and protect our children from from our perspective as experienced adults, including potentially giving up on things too quickly and missing out on opportunities, etc. as a result.

She is a 13 yr old, who given her ADHD diagnosis is likely to have social and emotional delays.
Trying something and when the initial dopamine hit from the newness wears off deciding you don’t like it is absolutely part of the ADHD experience however education isn’t the same as an after school sports club.
I would be setting this up as you have to go to school to get an education, let’s keep on looking at how we make this work better for you. What ideas can you think of to make this smoother and easier.
Acknowledge her discomfort and distress, look at what can change and remind her that she can do hard things.
I would give somewhat different advice if she had an autism diagnosis, so I would also make sure that you are as sure as you can be what her diagnosis are.

I would explore medication. Some capsules can be broken open and sprinkled on food to be taken

Personally, I wouldn’t EHE. But I would pursue an EHCP. If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, with an EHCP you can look at EOTAS/EOTIS. In the meantime, if DD can’t attend school, the LA is responsible for ensuring she still receives a suitable full-time education so request alternative provision. On their website, ISPEA has a model letter you can use. Forcing DD to attend when she isn’t able to is likely to result in further trauma.

It is far, far more likely it is can’t not won’t even if it comes across as won’t or DD says it is won’t.

What are DD’s interests? That is often a ‘way in’ to providing support.

Firstly, no one is recommending that we give her meds without her agreement. She has the final say on whatever happens, though she will be enormously resistant. This suggestion was how she could ingest prescribed meds when she can’t swallow tablets.

Second, I do disagree - nine days of a new school isn’t long enough, aged 13, to decide that something isn’t right for you. How many times have we gone somewhere, or started something, and the lack of familiarity and comfort has made us feel on edge and uncomfortable and we say we don’t like it?

I’m not listening to her and then telling her she doesn’t feel what she says she feels. I’m listening, empathising and asking for her not to make a big decision without having given it a chance. Some of the days she’s been in, she was coming down with a bug and one of those days one of her new friends wasn’t in, both of which will have made it harder for her.

I’m trying to support her as much as I can, but I don’t know what is teenage hormones, what is anxiety, what is ADHD, what is a normal fear of starting something new? Surely as a parent, I can’t let her, at such a young age, make huge decisions like this without having any input. I’m honestly lost.

I haven’t read all replies yet @ChrisReaPoppedAnEggInMyBath so apologies for any repetition.

First of all, huge hugs, I could have written this about my daughter who has just gone into year 10. We haven’t moved schools as we, and our daughter, recognise that all the things she struggles with (environment, what she sees as unfairness, pointless rules, too much noise / distraction / people etc) but she has made the same argument to us over and over on home schooling and her attendance is already very poor for the year.

I have been very clear that we recognise that school is a tough environment, but home or online schooling is not an option. She will not be able to self motivate to do it, and we both work full time, so cannot be at her to do it.

School doesn’t have an EHCP and school support is a whole other (mostly negative) story but she does seem to be finding things both better and worse going into year 10.

Sorry none of this is entirely helpful but wanted to let you know you are not alone, I have also had the very same “school is not optional” outburst, and there have been many tears from all of us.

Our focus has been to get her to look at what she can take from schooling, it’s the way the world works and yes it’s not the right place for her but she can and will do it. She’s really looking forward to being able to get a job which she thinks will be loads better even though I’ve explained that there’s lots of the same things 😂

On the choices thing, I take the view that I can take her preferences into account but she’s not making the call on school. But there are things she can choose (for us it’s what night we arranged tutoring for, whether she takes packed lunch or buys it, whether she wants to participate in anything extra at school etc)

appreciate very difficult when dealing with that black and white / all or nothing attitude and it sounds like your daughter might be more firmly in that space than mine.

We told ours home schooling wasn’t an option.

Made not a jot of difference. Not one jot. Even with every explanation x100.

Dc are different. My dd was too unwell to attend even though she wanted to. It’s not about not wanting to go, it’s about being unable to go.

You got lucky. Mine made it through Y10. The hell came later.

You need to push for an EHCP in case the unthinkable happens.

I felt fine trying out my idea of a new school after a year's worth of research, various meetings, and a lot of hard work to raise the money to facilitate the move. My 13 year old started to research home schooling on Thursday. Less than 36 hours ago.

We’re only just beginning year 10, and I didn’t mean to suggest our daughter accepts our response, it comes up every day just about!

I hear you though, it is about being unable to go, unable to deal with an environment that doesn’t meet their needs. Sending love, I hope you and your child are doing okay now.

Working doesn’t mean there aren’t options if school is inappropriate. EOTAS/EOTIS via an EHCP and alternative provision under section 19 of the Education Act 1996 is not EHE. LAs cannot compel parents to facilitate or deliver provision whether they work or not. That is the LA’s responsibility.

This is why you MUST get an EHCP!

I thought they didn’t intervene if the dc was at independent school.

Theres loads of online schools.