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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you agree with ‘the flag flyers’

243 replies

Gobbledygook123 · 19/09/2025 17:54

Plus if you’re also educated and at least middle income?

The only people I know personally that agree with Farage et al are from working class backgrounds and/or are generally not educated higher than GCSE level.

Granted this is quite a small snapshot but this includes friends of friends, acquaintances etc so wondering if my perception of the ‘typical Farage voter’ is correct or skewed.

OP posts:
RuttleTuttle · 19/09/2025 18:43

Gobbledygook123 · 19/09/2025 17:54

Plus if you’re also educated and at least middle income?

The only people I know personally that agree with Farage et al are from working class backgrounds and/or are generally not educated higher than GCSE level.

Granted this is quite a small snapshot but this includes friends of friends, acquaintances etc so wondering if my perception of the ‘typical Farage voter’ is correct or skewed.

No, those are the only ones who admit it.

EchoedSilence · 19/09/2025 18:43

Not all WC people live in social housing. Some of us own our own homes.

Megifer · 19/09/2025 18:46

Educated to degree level (2 separate quals) professional/chartered status. Very comfortable income. Dont really like what the flags stand for in some people's eyes but I also agree that something really needs to be done about migration. I do like seeing them though taking all that out of it.

I have been surprised that the most staunch flag supporters i know have been other professional colleagues/peers, so very different experience to you.

Tollington · 19/09/2025 18:47

We need a sub forum for posts about flags

ThisLemonHare · 19/09/2025 18:49

We've never ever been a big flag waving nation. It isn't anything to do with patriotism.

That's not quite true. I'm middle aged and remember flags and bunting at my primary school fetes, in shop windows, at sporting events, on public buildings/flagpoles on special occasions. You could even buy mini paper flags for sandcastles. Union Jacks on T-shirts were everywhere in the 90s (cool Britannia).

Gobbledygook123 · 19/09/2025 18:53

ThisLemonHare · 19/09/2025 18:49

We've never ever been a big flag waving nation. It isn't anything to do with patriotism.

That's not quite true. I'm middle aged and remember flags and bunting at my primary school fetes, in shop windows, at sporting events, on public buildings/flagpoles on special occasions. You could even buy mini paper flags for sandcastles. Union Jacks on T-shirts were everywhere in the 90s (cool Britannia).

I think we’re a very big flag flying nation actually. It’s why we’ve pretty much all got a Union Jack stashed somewhere ready for some royal occasion or other.
It’s also why back in the 80’s the St George’s cross became a symbol for football hooliganism and is now felt as a symbol of hate and racism.

However, the post was specifically asking about socioeconomic backgrounds and baring in mind it’s anonymous the poll and posters aren’t matching up.

OP posts:
Financeisfun · 19/09/2025 18:53

I'm a Farage supporter. I have a degree, professional qualification, am a higher rate tax payer and a senior professional job.

FrippEnos · 19/09/2025 18:54

We've never ever been a big flag waving nation. It isn't anything to do with patriotism.

I think that its more true to say that we have often flown the flags for various things, but there has always been a large group of people that have either taken the piss or flat out derided those that have done it.

I can remember various world cups where people put flags on their cars and the joke was either the more flags the worse the driver, the thicker the driver, or the more racist the driver.

Gobbledygook123 · 19/09/2025 18:56

Financeisfun · 19/09/2025 18:53

I'm a Farage supporter. I have a degree, professional qualification, am a higher rate tax payer and a senior professional job.

Would you describe yourself and your upbringing as middle or working class?

OP posts:
Newsendmum · 19/09/2025 18:57

PrincessC0nsuelaBananaHammock · 19/09/2025 18:33

There are plenty of thick, upper-class, degree-educated people. Have you seen the Just Stop Oil dickheads throwing tomato soup on priceless artwork?

That's not thick though. That's a well thought out ethical position on whether art or ecology are most important and what kind of protest would gain most attention.

It's based on facts about the way oil is impacting the world we live in.

You just don't happen to agree with their analysis, or their priorities or their way of protesting.

However, what makes people who are anti immigration open to the charge of being "thick" - not that I think they are thick, but there is a charge to be met - is that they aren't drawing on accurate evidence and are being swayed by emotive tribal rhetoric. It's a lack of insight which often goes along with unpractised skills in abstract thinking.

I don't think working class people are thick at all. In fact I think most of them/us have been treated shamefully by late capitalist interests - tech companies, finance companies, housing policy, the financial markets, and by successive govenments who have drained the life out of our communities and made public services a hollowed-out transactional shell. People want good, warm, community solidarity for them and their families, and people to engage with them and help them as part of our shared welfare state, and they don't have it. They are quite legitimately looking around for who to blame. It's not a "thick" response to do that. everyone does.

It's a tiny bit thick, though, when someone with some knowledge says "hang on, those people aren't the problem, here's some evidence of the bigger picture" to just ignore it.

Problem is, no authorities are trusted now to provide any evidence of anything.

Toastandbutterand · 19/09/2025 18:58

Didn't finish my degree.
Minimum wage job.
Live on a council estate/HA area.

I do not like flags on lampposts.
Neither does the nice young girl over the road who got drunk last weekend and climbed a lamppost and removed one for me.
I owe her a bottle of wine!

LaughingAloudAsWeGoInsane · 19/09/2025 19:01

Newsendmum · 19/09/2025 18:57

That's not thick though. That's a well thought out ethical position on whether art or ecology are most important and what kind of protest would gain most attention.

It's based on facts about the way oil is impacting the world we live in.

You just don't happen to agree with their analysis, or their priorities or their way of protesting.

However, what makes people who are anti immigration open to the charge of being "thick" - not that I think they are thick, but there is a charge to be met - is that they aren't drawing on accurate evidence and are being swayed by emotive tribal rhetoric. It's a lack of insight which often goes along with unpractised skills in abstract thinking.

I don't think working class people are thick at all. In fact I think most of them/us have been treated shamefully by late capitalist interests - tech companies, finance companies, housing policy, the financial markets, and by successive govenments who have drained the life out of our communities and made public services a hollowed-out transactional shell. People want good, warm, community solidarity for them and their families, and people to engage with them and help them as part of our shared welfare state, and they don't have it. They are quite legitimately looking around for who to blame. It's not a "thick" response to do that. everyone does.

It's a tiny bit thick, though, when someone with some knowledge says "hang on, those people aren't the problem, here's some evidence of the bigger picture" to just ignore it.

Problem is, no authorities are trusted now to provide any evidence of anything.

This is a great post.

Imaginariums · 19/09/2025 19:05

I think middle class people are becoming more aware of the problem since so many migrant hotels have popped up on our door steps.

There’s a problem with it, a big problem. Doesn’t matter what people say on here, it’s like brexit. People are scared to be branded racist if they speak up. Middle class people will sit quietly. They won’t fly the flag. They will vote accordingly at the next GE.

What scares me is how much all the educated, well off boomers in the family absolutely love farage.

itispersonal · 19/09/2025 19:05

I’m a degree educated professional from a working class background. We have some flags up along a main road in our village and I quite like them!

if you go to central London there lots of union jacks flying around and I like it! Seems that’s the only area which can be proud to be British by having the flags constantly!

i think English people want something to be proud of- our nhs, education and job opportunities are a mess. We are priced out of a nice life and yet for most of us we should be grateful we were born in the U.K. We have a democracy, we have freedoms and a not too corrupt legal system and don’t fear death for having an opposing view to the government.

Labour should have helped the working/ unheard/ ignored class feel proud and let them have the flag and encouraged it along our ‘British values’.
It shouldn’t have been taken over by a few in the far right or those on the left calling it a racist symbols! We have to change it from those views and calling everyone a racist, thick who has or puts up a flag doesn’t help. It feeds into Tommy Robinson / reform hands which no one wants.

maudelovesharold · 19/09/2025 19:06

So everyone else can wave their flags frantically in support of whatever they're passionate about....but not people who want Britain to be great again

Maybe we ought to have hats with ‘MUKGA’ on them. Not very catchy, though…

CobbleWobble · 19/09/2025 19:07

Whilst I have no issues with an England flag (or union flag) being flown in England, I do have issues with the rhetoric behind the current wave of flags. Reminds me of when the third Reich put up Nazi flags.

So flags for sporting events, jubilees/ royal celebrations - yes.

Flags to "reclaim our country" - no.

Middlechild3 · 19/09/2025 19:13

It's a sad state of affairs that a country can't fly its national flag without negative connotations. I've see more Polish and Syrian flags flown in my city until recently. We should be proud to fly it, reclaim it from the far right connotations. I would hope anyone offered the opportunity to live here would be proud to fly it too.

Imaginariums · 19/09/2025 19:13

I think we do need to reclaim our country and make it great again though. I don’t know the correct wording to use so apologies if this offends but we need to get a point where our flag is something we are all proud of. Whatever your skin colour if you’re British then the union flag is yours and it should be something you’re proud of not scared of.

The government should reclaim it and stick it on schools like they do in North America. Children should be proud to be British and know what our British values are.

The government need to be more protectionist and make damn sure British and international companies are investing in British workers.

Not running around scared of everything, pandering to everyone and standing for nothing.

I wouldn’t vote for farage though. All of the above doesn’t involve racism or abuse. It’s inclusive, for everyone.

jessycake · 19/09/2025 19:21

Working class and no I don’t , we do have a place for young asylum seekers in a town near us , so plenty of flags .

CobbleWobble · 19/09/2025 19:26

Imaginariums · 19/09/2025 19:13

I think we do need to reclaim our country and make it great again though. I don’t know the correct wording to use so apologies if this offends but we need to get a point where our flag is something we are all proud of. Whatever your skin colour if you’re British then the union flag is yours and it should be something you’re proud of not scared of.

The government should reclaim it and stick it on schools like they do in North America. Children should be proud to be British and know what our British values are.

The government need to be more protectionist and make damn sure British and international companies are investing in British workers.

Not running around scared of everything, pandering to everyone and standing for nothing.

I wouldn’t vote for farage though. All of the above doesn’t involve racism or abuse. It’s inclusive, for everyone.

But a flag doesn't do that.

Investing in education and healthcare does that. Taking care of our poor. Supporting others and providing good quality and plentiful social housing. Supporting disabled people and being a place where we stand up to discrimination. I don't see how a flag does any of that.

When I think of British Values I think of the country that went to war to fight fascism, fought genocide, opened its doors to refugees who were being persecuted for their faith, created one of the first and most inclusive free at point of access health care systems and was one of the first to give women the vote and fight for equality. I don't see any of the people local to me who are encouraging people to put up flags espousing any of those values. So I suspect part of the issue is that we can't agree on what British values actually are.

scalt · 19/09/2025 19:27

I’m very wary of any kind of public bandwagon: as far as I’m concerned, it’s how we ended up with members of the public turning on each other in 2020, dobbing each other in for “having the grandchildren round”, rushing out for toilet paper, banging pots and pans and shaming those who didn’t, putting up rainbows, etc. I think the flag waving now has parallels to that, although less extreme. In 2020, it was politicians spreading panic (and yes, I’m certain that was deliberate) about “that nasty virus”, and now, as whispered by Farage and his ilk, it’s “those nasty immigrants”. (Not MY words!) Somebody popularised the clapping in 2020: the government denied this, but it was clearly deliberately “marketed” by somebody, many people jumped on the bandwagon, and tried to shame those who refused. Now, it’s shaming those who object to the flags everywhere, and I think the ambiguity over whether the flag means “national pride” or “go back home” is deliberate. Suppose they had invented a new symbol like a swastika to mean “immigrants, go home”; it would have been eradicated quickly by an angry public. Using an ambiguous symbol like the flag keeps people talking about it (including us).

UnhappyHobbit · 19/09/2025 19:30

Why do you feel the need to gather “evidence” just to back up your own narrow minded viewpoint? You’re entitled to your opinion, but what does further education have to do with it? I studied classics myself and never once had to denounce my working class background or indoctrinate myself against other perspectives.
Life outside of university has shown me that there are always exceptions to stereotypes — a reality you seem unable (or unwilling) to grasp from your ivory tower. I wonder how far back you’d have to go to find your own working class roots. Most of us have them, after all.
Flying flags can be condemned as a thick sport, but your blatant classism and close minded views somehow gets a free pass? Interesting double standard.

WilfredsPies · 19/09/2025 19:31

Gobbledygook123 · 19/09/2025 18:30

The only people I know or know of that support Farage are either working class or uneducated or both. Not all of them are thick but some of those are. I just don’t know of anyone who doesn’t at least fall into one of those camps.

From personal experience. Hence the post to see if this is genuinely as it appears in my albeit small control group

Fucking hell, I’m embarrassed for you. The working class and fat people; the last two groups it’s still socially acceptable to be really offensive about. And then you wonder why some people consider ‘middle class’ to be an insult.

ClaraPowell · 19/09/2025 19:32

I’m from a working class background, have a degree and seven years of postgraduate master’s level qualifications, live in a town with a high Muslim population and I’m tired of hearing about flags.

GloryFades · 19/09/2025 19:37

I don’t agree with the shabby unco-ordinated nature of them. I’d be wholly supportive of a centralised government campaign to raise money to put up a load of flags properly. I’m in the US at the moment and while their politics are nothing to aspire to, the patriotism and flags are impressive and a positive feature.

It would also take the wind out of the sails of the bigots if it was reframed the flags as a welcome to the UK, an aspirational place we are proud of.