To think working parents get more workplace sympathy than single, childfree staff who are expected to pick up the slack?

[PlainTealCrow]

Parents get flexibility and understanding when life is hard. Childfree staff? Expected to stay late and cover gaps. AIBU to think this double standard is rarely acknowledged?

Aibu to post a goady thread and then fuck off after plopping 1 post hoping to divide option for the lols? Yes you are

@Deepbluesea1

i am terrible at making arguments! I meant it’s a lose lose for parents (usually mothers) either they go to work and get made to feel guilty for needing flexibility, or they stay at home and are made to feel guilty for not contributing or building up a pension etc.

Its a lose/lose for parents (usually mums)

Do we really need another thread about this??????? Really??????

This.

When I was working in the City as a newly single mother I asked to be allowed to leave work 30 minutes early to pick up my daughter in return for committing to picking up any of my team’s work later when my daughter was asleep.

I ended up picking up huge amounts of work and routinely did a couple of hours a night from about 9-11pm while my colleagues were all in the pub.

Still two of my male colleagues complained that I wasn’t a “team player” because I was allowed a 30 minute adjustment to my commute.

So, no. There’s still loads of discrimination against working parents (working women really, lets be honest) taking advantage of anything they can to make their working lives easier. Which is where all the ridiculous bellyaching about where wfh comes from. It’s backlash from men who resent anything that makes it easier for women to advance their careers.

I think it’s the same issue childless/parents: some colleagues pull their weight, and others use any excuse. There are hard workers and slackers amongst both groups imho 🤷🏻‍♀️

Agreed. It's been recycled so many times. No doubt it will be followed by the annual controversy about whether parents should have preferential treatment when it comes to working on Christmas Eve.

I've been incredibly lucky to work somewhere where work/life balance is actually promoted, I have never taken it for granted & always make sure no one else has to pick up my work. My son is 18 now so it's been a long time since I've needed any work flexibility to support him BUT I always have (& always did before I became a mum) offered what help I could to my colleagues with or without children. We all have difficult times in our lives & life is so much easier if colleagues are supportive.

I note OP hasn't been back.

Totally depends on the workplace!

Of course everyone should be given flexibility within business need.

It’s usually down to bad management if some people seem to be picking up a lot of slack for others.

True - a lot of the time, working parents (esp mothers) are going over the top trying to demonstrate that they are doing their bit.

In the team I work in, there’s only one manager who doesn’t have children, and she is the first to take advantage of flexible timings etc - as she should but it takes a confident person to be assertive re these things.

This is very true - many moons ago when I worked in retail I worked a lot over Christmas especially so another colleague with children could have eg Christmas Eve off.

In my current job it isn't really measured by 'doing more'. When I'm in work, I'm working.

When I worked in the nhs, as a single parent with two young children, I put in a flexible working request as I had no out of hours childcare.

I was given three 12.5hr shifts on Friday, Saturday and Sunday every week.

there is literally no other option- if your a parent and you have to get a child from childcare then staying late is not an option - you just can't do it/

If you don't want to stay late just refuse they can't make you do it and you cant be fired because of it.

I'm happy to jump back on when kids in bed if really really necessary or get in 30 mins early another time after drop off at breakfast club or whatever

but there isn't someone else "picking up the slack"

Not in my workplace they don’t, we all have flex regardless of personal situations.

I always picked up the extra shifts before I had children and had my leave outside of school holidays. It didn't bother me. Parents do have commitments to manage that child free people don't have, unless they have caring commitments. In my current role there is a child free woman and another who's children are grown that care for their parents. They get accommodations like the parents on the team do. No one complains about it, it's life. People with caring commitments do need more flexibility.

Do that for too long and your own health suffers (I know from experience). It’s not a long-term strategy. And I’m a human.

This is not my experience in 16 years as a working mum. Nobody else stays late to cover my work, it’s still there for me to do after my child is in bed.

The main issue is those who engage in presenteeism think that just being in the office longer equates to them working more.

My opposite number is a man same age as me, with no childcare requirements. He’s has one project to run. He’s in the office at 7.30 and rarely leaves before 6, every day. He frequently misses deadlines, never picks up any of the room management stuff, we often have to draft in additional staff to cover his workload when he is behind. I WFH 3 days and in the office 2 days. I get in at ten and usually leave about 4.30. I have 4 projects a similar size to his, carry all the management stuff, meet every deadline etc. On the face of it, his office hours would suggest I work less than he does. That just isn’t true.

The only thing my team have to do is, be aware if they want holidays during the school holiday period, to run them past me first as I am restricted to those for having time off. They know to avoid first two weeks in July if they can, but even if there is an overlap, we can make it work.

It’s laughable to think women are giving less to the workplace simply because they need flexible working. It is largely untrue, but don’t you worry, by every metric, their career trajectory suffers because of it so all of you pretending you cover our backs are well rewarded over time.

If I had a colleague who was caring for an elderly parent or disabled relative I would assume they should be accommodated when they needed to be. Parenting is also a caring responsibility. Just one that seems to make some people extremely hostile.

I can give examples from my former place of work, a school.

Parents were allowed to be absent the first day of term (for pupils) if they had a child starting primary school. They were also given time off to attend nativity plays and other events involving their children.

I was instructed that I wasn't allowed to give period 1 classes to a particular member of staff "because she has four children". (Her husband was on the SLT in another school.)

This was over and above the 5 days of compassionate leave allowed a year. [The precise term escapes me now - I'm talking about time off to accompany family members to hospital appointments, etc.]

When my father died and I had to organise the death certificate, funeral, other administrative matters plus care for my mother (who had physical challenges plus dementia) I was told that if I needed more than the 5 days I should get myself signed off by my doctor. (At one point, anyone organising a funeral was allowed 10 days of compassionate leave for that alone.)

I really do wish that those caring for the elderly and disabled were given the same accommodations, but this didn't happen in my experience.

I think it's true to a certain extent. When I worked in the public sector there was definitely a lot of it. People with kids coming in late or saying they had to WFH (this was before WFH was a thing, no laptops etc so doing very little while the rest of the team had to take on extra public facing stuff) because kid poorly or they'd forgotten it was half term etc. The one that annoyed me most was that there were limited spaces in the work car park and you had to join a waiting list to be allocated a space on a "time served" basis - this was an official policy. But two people with kids were allowed to leap frog me "because it makes it easier for them with the school run".

Its been different in the private sector (law). I've since had kids and felt I had to go over and above to stay in the running for promotions and not get bumped onto "the mummy track" as there seems to be an assumption that a woman with kids will not want to work full time/ not want to do evening events with clients/won't be reliable etc.

So yes and no.

What about people who remain childless throughout their working life - should they always have to work Christmas so parents don’t have to?

What do you think?

Personally, I dont care if you have dc or not, do your job that you're paid to do, or piss off - HTH

At my workplace they set up a carers network. I thought it was going to be geared towards those caring for ill/disabled partners or relatives, and as I was caring for my elderly DM with dementia at the time, I signed up, but it turned out to be a parents’ network under another name.

In my industry parents might get flexibility to do pick up and drop off but we log back one often later into the night. There is zero difference in the hours / output / work we do compared to our childless colleagues and absolutely no slack!