I took down some flags and DH wasn’t happy

[LittleChopper]

On my commute today, I noticed someone had hung three large St George flags on a bridge coming out of our village. They have been popping up everywhere but this particular instance I thought “I’m not having that”. On the way home I pulled over and took them down.

when I got home and DH asked why I was binning three large flags I told him and he.. had some interesting opinions. He told me I shouldn’t be pissing off people in the village, that they have every right to hang an England flag in England, and that I’m being too political.

For a start, I would argue that I’ve always been quite strongly opinionated so he shouldn’t be surprised I did it.

Just as others have the right to their opinion I have mine. We have people in the village who are migrants… why should they have to look at that. It’s clear why they were hanging there given what’s going on at the moment and I’ve never see a flag hanging in the village in the decade we’ve been here so why else would they be there now.

I’m just so disappointed with it all. With the UK, with DH.

Next time maybe I’ll add to the collection instead. 🇬🇷🇮🇪🇮🇳🇦🇫🇧🇸🇵🇰🇪🇸🇸🇩🇿🇦🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

The vast majority of migrants have not risked their lives. Boat crossings make up a tiny tiny proportion of the migrant population.

But of course context is key.

An England flag to cheer on a sports team. Great.

An England flag to mark some occasion. Grand.

An England flag at a time when people have co-opted the flag to be a symbol of ‘fighting back’ against migrants? An unmistakeable signal to certain people that they are not welcome here.

Good for you OP. YANBU.

No but racism is racism, and when the flag is co-opted as a symbol of that racism, then erecting that flag everywhere in the context of ‘fighting back’ against migrants is racist.

@LittleChopper Your DH thinks you're being "too political"? So what's his opinion of the politics of the people who hung the flags? Does he fondly imagine they're tolerant, immigrant-welcoming moderates? Yeah, sorry OP, I'd be rather disappointed in him too.

There is a St Georges day in April

Yeah best case scenario OP’s DH is a quiet acquiesor who doesn’t want to rock the boat, even if it means plenty of people being sent a clear message that they are not welcome,

Or he agrees with the sentiments behind the current movement.

Either way not someone I could ever find attractive.

This thread is weird!
All the “good for you” every other post 🤔

For fuck's sake, immigrants are allowed to have opinions and express them. And they don't have to constantly grovel and pretend everything is perfect - they are allowed to criticise the UK, and I welcome their insights. You ask what gives them the right... have you heard of freedom of speech? It's something that a lot of people in the UK have traditionally valued.

I lived abroad for years, in more than one country. I never once met a single British expat in any of those places who was so eternally grateful to their host country that they wouldn't ever have felt able to voice a critical opinion. We all had plenty to say, and that's normal.

If racist campaigners in the countries where I lived had started using their national flag with the clear intention of making foreign residents feel unwelcome and sometimes unsafe? You bet I would have spoken out against it. Do you think racism is something that people should just quietly endure?

FWIW, I loved the countries where I was privileged enough to live, but it didn't prevent me from seeing their faults or expressing my opinion about them. Just as I see the faults in my own country and speak out about those too.

We all know why there are St George flags everywhere right now. And anyone who is unhappy about the way in which racists have co-opted the flag is entirely at liberty to speak out about it. Regardless of their nationality or ethnicity.

Oh this is great!

Personally I wrote “good for you” because I’m sick of the roundabout-painting yobs and those who share their racist mindset (I’m white and all my ancestors are English as far back as I know they go, if it makes a difference).
I’m sure you’re probably going to say that the current epidemic of flag bearing isn’t racism, but we all know the attitudes behind it.

Whilst a large number of those hanging flags are, no doubt, racist, I do think it's important that the St George flag is "reclaimed". It's quite astonishing how politically incorrect it is to fly our national flag - perhaps the only country in the world where it elicits such a response. Time to reclaim it and fly it with pride, like every other country. Dissociating it from racist discourse can only happen if people start to fly it again. And from a purely aesthetic point of view, it's been lovely seeing all the flags fluttering in the breeze.

Why are you so offended by our national flag?

They have set up GoFundMe accounts so people can donate to ‘the cause’. I saw one group had hired a cherry picker so they could hang flags as high as they could. This was on a busy A road. If people take flags down, then they put more up (even outside people’s property if they object to them).

These groups are not grassroots patriots. They are being funded by the US and the BNP. The creator of Flag Force, Joseph Poulton - 22 from York, is currently in the US as he has been invited to Charlie Kirk’s funeral. Make of that what you will.

It’s a targeted campaign to cause division in Britain. Finishing off what Brexit started.
Someone mentioned on here the think tank set up by Reform - Resolute 1850 . It is now known as the Centre for a Better Britain with one of the aims to turn the NHS into a private health insurance system (the Financial Times had sight of a document on this).

Bravo! 👏

And to the wide eyed “what’s wrong with English flags in England?” brigade: If you flew an english flag 5 years ago, fine.
Anyone doing it for the first time now is doing it to send a “go home” message.
You can deny it on mumsnet all you like, I will still judge you, and so will many others in real life.

The disingenuousness of your post is astounding for it's duplicity and masterful faux ignorance of the purpose of the flags. Perhaps you should reconsider your attitude to one of gratitude that this is a country where you are able to think and say what you think even though it smacks of racist undertones. Are you racist?

Exactly this - it's the motivation behind the display. And the wide-eyed disingenuity of other pps claiming "but it's just our national flag/it's just people being patriotic/why should people be offended" isn't fooling anyone. They know exactly what they're doing and why.
I love the UK and am proud of my country, which is why I'm happy to share it (particularly with people whose own homelands have been ravaged by war and laid waste). I would love to be able to reclaim the flag of St George and the Union flag from the bigots and racists and fly them with pride, generosity, tolerance and welcoming of all law-abiding foreigners, but sadly I can't see that happening any time soon.

If flags flying were a normal occurrence then no objection ,but this sudden flood of flags is very intimidating for so many people. I work with people from many countries and hate to think that they think they are not welcome here.

@Chichi444 "Patriotism is not racism!" For most it isn't. For a significant minority it very much is.

I’m brown and have lived in the UK all my life and the English flag (outside of legitimate sporting events and St George’s day celebrations) has always been been terrifying. For many ethnic minorities and foreigners, it’s a sign of a place to avoid/ a place where I’m certainly not welcome. Welsh and Scottish flag don’t have the same effect.

If English people wanted their flag to be a symbol of pride and the better English values, they should have spoken up while it waa being used as a symbol of xenophobia, extreme nationalism, thuggery and hatred of foreigners by the EDL and similar groups. The fact you’re happy to hang your flag because Tommy Robinson tells you to do it, says a lot about you.

"We have people in the village who are migrants… why should they have to look at that."

You probably shouldn't migrate to somewhere where you are offended by their national flag.

Because unfortunately due to the neo-nazis and far right, the flags now convey a different message than they used to.

It’s really sad and for some, it is frightening.

I live in an area that’s very white, and those flags are popping up everywhere now.

Freedom means they can put the flags up and also that OP can take them down.

The people berating OP for exercising her freedom are being hypocrites.

And most councils have rules that the public can’t attach things to public property, so Op Is actually doing her civic duty to her civic centre.

Even worse than seeing the flag are the messily spray painted red crosses on any available sign. Regardless of the politics they’re just tatty and tacky!

I’ve taken the liberty of hiding our collection of St George’s. We usually put them out for football tournaments but recently my DH has disappeared down the Reform rabbithole and become really right wing. I wouldn’t want them appearing in my windows thanks.

That said I think DH may be developing a form of dementia or something, he’s quite an ill man on a lot of drugs and has suddenly started following a lot of conspiracy theories and has become a bit of a prepper! Amazon are at my house a lot right now, with things we might need in the event of a cyber attack or heavy snowfall.

We have people in the village who are migrants… why should they have to look at that?
Why should they have to look at what, an England flag in... England!?

Do you not realise this rhetoric is precisely WHY some people are getting thoroughly pissed off!?
Presumably, those who have chosen to make England their home, would be proud of its national flag? Just like if I moved to Spain tomorrow, I would consider the Spanish flag MY flag.

So YABVU and I'm team husband.

Another disingenuous query. No-one's "offended by our national flag" - we're offended by the people who've co-opted it to send bigoted and racist messages to immigrants.

Take them down if you want to. As long as you don’t then start bleating about the rise of the so-called ‘far-right’ and Reform and hang-wringing about how this could possibly be happening - you’re the reason, your attitude towards the flag and the people that fly them is the reason, and you’re doing Reform’s work for them! It’s a massive gift you’re giving them. You’re stoking the divisions you claim to abhor.