Why is the public directing their anger at the individual asylum seeker that arrives at the shore…

[AnotherNC12345]

… rather than the smuggling / trafficking gangs that are responsible for the journey?

I think it’s very extreme to put all of the blame and the anger at the individual that arrives, rather than the people responsible for orchestrating the whole process. These individuals are often ‘sold the dream’ and hooked in by organised crime groups who direct them to the UK. I’ve looked at sample routes from different parts of the world (screenshots may be pending) and these are complex and would need local people, as well as law enforcement, customs officers and other government officials to turn a blind eye involved in smuggling across multiple borders.

It’s no secret that these crossings likely cost a lot of money, and I think it would be safe to assume that refugees would often be in crippling debt to the OCGs who will put pressure on them to pay it back, by threatening them and their families and I would go as far as to say they could then be coerced in to further committing crimes when granted asylum in order to pay back their debt.

These OCGs are likely involved in other trafficking / crime, not just of asylum seekers but likely drugs, weapons and sex as they have the connections across those borders.

I think it’s very unlikely that an asylum seeker is sitting there looking at all the European government websites and shopping for a country with the best benefits package and approaching a trafficker with a brochure like they’re picking a Jet2 holiday. But this is the narrative that’s often put us and fuelled in the media.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a better system and want to control our borders better on a whole, but this sheer anger and blame placed at the human in front of us seems very misplaced, when they were likely manipulated in to thinking they can have a better life in this particular country and not another, and the problem is way way bigger than an individual.

Have proof of that do you?

Well if those claims are true then obviously it needs to be dealt with. I’m not sure the actions of a few people prove any great conspiracy on a large scale
though.

You do realise that people can get married and have kids and still be gay, yes?

I can recognise the damage to UK society yes.

The Brits living in Spain have to financially support themselves. If they trumped up with nothing but the shirt on their back, they'd be laughed straight back to the airport. And as I’ve repeatedly said, I think they should learn Spanish and not live in enclaves, but conversely people defending immigrants seem to think its fine for them to live closely and maintain their language and cultural traditions, and we should welcome that. Do you think Spain should be more Anglicised, so our pensioners feel more at home?

But a few people directing anger at men on boats means that EVERYONE objecting to the arrival of thousands of undocumented men is a far right racist bigot?

If a gay man can hold his nose and have a straight relationship in the UK, he can do so in Nigeria. Funny how so many “discover” they are gay, or Christian, or political, when their final appeal is heard or they are about to be put on a plane. It also makes a mockery of our right to deport criminals who have served more than a 12 month sentence. Their human rights frequently trump ours to stay safe from violent and predatory men.

Thank you.

Are we all still on this ‘asylum seeker’ page, or did Frogface do the hard work for you and say out loud today what is really wanted, what is really meant?

May I present to you… Benidorm. Britain, but in Spain.

So yes. People in Benidorm can and do speak English to each other, and have anglicised the area. Famously. Something we’re all aware of.

I do think it’s fine for people to live closely and speak their own language in their own communities, with others that speak that language.

I’ve just been reading about that. Awful.

Have you been to East London? (where I'm from). Some parts don't feel like England. I went to the GP a few months ago and a woman was having trouble with the receptionist due to her inability to speak English. You cannot be a fully integrated member of society here if you can't speak the language.

There are times I get frustrated and want to move abroad. If I moved to somewhere on the continent. I'd definitely make an effort every day to learn the language.

What a ridiculous attempt at an analogy. Benidorm is designed by Spaniards to make money off the Brits. It’s an economic success for Spain, that they have cultivated. With enormous good will.
Have a little look at what Spain was like before British holiday makers. Have you heard of Franco? Have you heard of Tourism for economic growth?
Nobody in Benidorm is struggling because of tourists that don’t speak Spanish. Spain Is grateful for the income.

Interesting. Thank you for answering.

No problem.

I’ve never said that. I think a lot of people object because they are fed lies by the racists and bigots but I don’t think those people are necessarily racist or bigoted themselves. They’re just misinformed.
I’m not naive enough to think that every single person who comes in on a small boat is a nice person, or a law abiding person, or is genuine in their seeking of asylum. That would be a stupid thing to claim. But I also don’t think that those few bad people are representative of all or even most. Most of the people just want a better life where they can live in peace.

The Brits in Spain are often claiming British benefits like pensions and PIP.
I don’t care if people in Spain don’t learn Spanish, but I don’t care if immigrants here learn English either. Most of the ones I know are at least trying to learn some. But learning a new language as an adult is very difficult.

You don’t know that this woman isn’t. She could have arrived days ago.

Today reform has said people like us will be deported. Still agree?

Reform is not your answer.

There is no nuance. There is no conversation. Everyone foreign born is on their shitlist.

Everyone.

Good question.

Today reform has said people like us will be deported. Still agree?

Reform said that people who have ILR would be reassessed. I'm confident that if I hadn't naturalised, I would pass the reassessment.
However I now hold a UK passport anyway.

But would you pass every 5 years?
Would you never be ill, or needed to care, during the required financial assessment period pulling you out of meeting that part of the requirement?
Retirement? How does that work?
It’s baffling that the intelligent Reform voter can’t imagine these type of scenarios, and more, that can impact on good hard working people ever in their lives. You may not even need help from the gov’t but just the impact on income will fail you - I claimed nothing having time for my mum, though I had some mat pay for the kids but both periods of care time I failed to maintain my normal income for a period of months. To be transparent I’d never meet the actual financials mooted to get here, but I’m just showing potential hiccough that worry even the hardest working person ‘we like here’ with ILR.

@MsJinks I'm not a Reform voter tbf.

I'd expect people who wish to commit to the UK long term to naturalise, as I've done. They're not taking that off the table.

Well that’s one view yes, and I understand that but we do get benefits from people, and they from us, by having the choice to work and live here longer term without changing nationality and throwing all your lot into being British.
There are some who would still like the option to go home ultimately if things changed, but not all countries would let them in after naturalisation here.
I’ve also taught people who were struggling to pass the LUK test for various reasons (not what I was teaching but came up a lot), though this was a while ago so hopefully they have better accessibility options where needed now.
I always thought ILR was a fair status, you can commit to years, but perhaps not for the rest of your life - that’s a huge decision. Maybe you love working here and have a projected career span of 10-20 years to progress, but don’t wish to have to stay forever.
ILR can actually be revoked now, for criminality and if you away too long you have to reapply - I wouldn’t wish it tightening up at all but perhaps there could be a debate around some tightening whilst not getting rid of it?
It is destabilising now though for many families faced with this - the retrospective part is not normally how we change anything (law) in the U.K. and that is a showcase of our cultural response to ‘fair’, so this too really is a difficult part of the whole policy.