To think there is some kind of weird push towards the far right?

[Checkcheckout]

I’m the first to admit that I am not the best informed - I prefer to keep my life stress free and simple as much as possible, and don’t have a TV, don’t read papers, and only listen to the radio when I’m driving (which is quite often). For my own mental health I prefer to live in my own little bubble.

But even with my limited exposure to media, I’ve noticed on Radio 2, both on the news and Jeremy Vine’s show, Reform are being given so much air time considering their paltry amount of MPs, the polls are being discussed regularly even though we’re years from an election. More than once listening to the radio I’ve thought the way they’re talking makes it sound like Reform winning the next election is a done deal, and thought to myself that this is how self fulfilling prophecies happen.

My algorithms on FB are seriously messed up. Despite having never been remotely interested in anything in the least bit right wing, all of a sudden I’m getting endless posts from knuckle dragging ‘patriot’ groups that I don’t even follow, with really horrendous and openly racist comments, thousands of them, which somehow FB are allowing to remain even though any kind of hate speech has always been censored on there. Why are these posts suddenly being allowed and pushed in my face?

Alongside this there seems to be a new story pretty much every day about the latest scandal involving Labour (again reported by the BBC), ok these things aren’t great although compared to the Tories’ rap list from their last spell in government, are fairly small fry really. It seems like there’s an active push for people to rebel away from the left just as the far right are gaining momentum.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I talking shite?

I didn't talk about a lack of Christianity. I stated the if we took the grandfathers from the end of WW2 and showed them the UK today, I doubt that they'd be very pleased as to what's happened.

you're literally writing things I never said.

So the UK was a far worse place when most people had "Christian Values" than it is today where people seem to hold little value in things other than celebrities, sports teams and social media? Is that right?

Fairly sure this was you @ColdSalads

You wrote:

"What I mean is that our grandfathers wouldn't be as approving of, for example, the trans movement, the lack of Christianity"

If that's not referring to a "lack of Christianity", what did you mean by it?

My bad and I own that mistake.

I'm a Christian and I think the values associated with my faith are a good thing for human kind. But I can understand why not everyone agrees with me.

our grandfathers wouldn't be as approving of, for example, the trans movement, the lack of Christianity, the changes of the demographs to our communities, the lack of patriotism....they'd look and 2025 and go "what the f"
Bollocks. My grandfathers were immigrants (and so was one of my grandmothers if they count?)
They worked extremely hard, and one of them was a bona fide war hero on the side of the Allies.
They had more experience of intolerance, many cultures ( in the Navy) and terrifying regimes targeting minorities in their little fingers than you have in your entire algorithm.
Only one was Christian, but the kind of Christian that believes in charity, helping the poor and being a good neighbour.
Im incredibly proud to be British as were they- our country is made up of people with all kinds of backgrounds and our strength has always been our tolerance.
I do think mass immigration from one place, too fast, is a problem, but it’s a problem created by right wing policies over years.
I also find the establishment left can be patronising to the working class, and fail to recognise that we want to be aspirational not just protected, but that’s no reason to fall for fascism.

That's a shit statement. I quoted some Christian values that we have embraced as a country and asked:

It's also interesting that you talk about a lack of Christianity. Which aspect exactly?

Toleration?
Forgiveness?
Acceptance?
Love they neighbour?

These are values the right are eschewing. Which values from Christianity do you feel are important and how have they been lacking?

Aha! By some miracle I've managed to find it!

I hope that poster won't mind if I C&P what she said, for those who CBA to click.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5277798-i-never-thought-id-see-the-us-aligning-with-russia?page=14&reply=142343599

Crikeyalmighty · 21/02/2025 14:19
It's strange - Russia specialises in using paid agitators in the most odd places- we look after several artist fan sites ( music) not modern trendy ones but artists mainly from 70s and 80s -several have posted negatively about Trump - all of a sudden masses of posts from people who never post/comment all supporting Putin and Trump and all with blank kind of profiles/ avatar pictures etc - it's like Brexit all over again- it's designed to make you feel that it is 'you' who is being unreasonable by not seeing that they have every right to go round pitching their sights on wherever they fancy for the assets . I'm sure mumsnet has a fair bit of this going on too - people who only comment if it involves politics on what is primarily a very wide subject based female dominated forum I'm always a bit wary of - and its nearly always those with views way to the right. I appreciate we can all see things differently but it's the lack of interaction with any other aspect of the site unless it's far right politics that makes me wary.

I suppose the Overton window has shifted economically to the right and socially to the left over the last 30-40 years. Lately though it seems to be moving back towards the right on social issues too.

Ah, there's more on that same thread, including a link to this article in 2022 which is very interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/troll-factory-spreading-russian-pro-war-lies-online-says-uk
‘Troll factory’ spreading Russian pro-war lies online, says UK
St Petersburg outfit hijacks discussions on Twitter, TikTok, world leaders’ social accounts and media websites, as well as manipulating opinion polls

The research said TikTok influencers were being paid to amplify pro-Kremlin narratives. Operatives also amplified genuine messages by legitimate social media users that happen to be consistent with the Kremlin’s viewpoint – seemingly to evade social media platforms’ measures to combat disinformation.

The analysis suggests one main activity is “brigading”, to steer attention of discussion on social media and in comments sections of newspapers towards favoured opinions.

[...] Social media accounts of bands and musicians including Daft Punk, David Guetta, Tiesto and Rammstein appear to have been targeted by the disinformation operation.
Researchers say the group seems to have learned from the tactics used by QAnon conspiracy theorists and from the Islamic State terror group.

Agree with this. The BBC has become less reliable for balanced views.

the only real way to have a balanced view is to actively seek out viewpoints and journalists who hold different political opinions and do the balancing yourself.

Read the Guardian and then The telegraph. Sign up for Private Eye - who first held the Post Office to account and exposed the lies and scandalous treatment there. Listen to Times radio for a radio news channel. - much more balanced than the BBC with some excellent journalists. Ignore Alistair Campbell’s The rest is politics, same advice for GB News and Sky news.

They’re only jumping on it because they see it as a voting point. They don’t give a shit about women as we know.

I'm sure mumsnet has a fair bit of this going on too - people who only comment if it involves politics on what is primarily a very wide subject based female dominated forum I'm always a bit wary of- and its nearly always those with views way to the right. I appreciate we can all see things differently but it's the lack of interaction with any other aspect of the site unless it's far right politics that makes me wary

Yep, we are looking at you, newly registered prolific poster ColdSalads😁

The 'left' (Labour are centre right) have been in power for ONE YEAR. They haven't had time to do much, either right or wrong. The cost of living crisis, the crashed economy - this is all the legacy of the Tories that's basically almost impossible to fix.

The right have been in power for about 99% of history. What we're seeing now is toys being spctacularly chucked out of the pram because the right have slightly loss their stranglehold on British politics.

The tax burden has moved very much to the left. The conservatives used to be a party that believed in lowering taxes, especially those on businesses. But the last 14 years of Tory gov couldn’t or didn’t do anything in this regard. Labour are continuing this journey. Which leaves a stagnating economy with zero growth but higher public spending. Above anything else mentioned on this thread - whether right or left leaning - it should be the single biggest concern for the country. Without economic growth we are actually completely doomed - socially, economically and politically.

Reform won’t have a clue how to address that, Labour’s tax rises aren’t working and are damaging to businesses, the Tories had 14 years to sort it out and didn’t / causing more harm than good with pulling us out of the single market and squabbling.

It's not actually a left or right government thing anymore, they are literally just the same.

A large portion of the British public has been asking for their issues to be listened too and addressed for a quarter of a century now, it's fallen on deaf ears.

Hence the reaction to come....

There is some sign of fragile recovery, certainly in the retail sector. It could be undone by the Autumn Budget - hopefully it won't be. But there's no obvious solution for fixing the growth problem. It's gone on too long and is now going to be exacerbated by AI related mass job losses.

That might answer @Underthinker 's question a little: Yes, Russia does put the welly in to influence, well, everyone, and it doesn't have to be done directly.

"Brigading" creates the appearance of high level of support for particular positions, and I expect eventually picks up real life support as well. So it creates noisy "constituencies" which become attractive for politicians to please or dangerous for them to ignore.

Plus the bots push fake support in both directions for a good old stir. I don't think Russia always has to invent issues: it can pick up existing ones, which genuinely concern lots of real people, and heat them up and work to drive the discourse to extreme poles.

It's all about nudging real people with real lives and real concerns.

Obviously these tricks aren't just used by the Russians. Any group can and does play.

Vote Reform, who'll give them more of the same, just with the opportunity to bash brown and Black people as some form of light relief?

That'll solve everything.

Oh, I totally agree it will be more of the same.

Low key civil war may be an issue in the not too distant future.

I think your sentence about bashing brown and black people is obnoxious, especially as white working class kids in this country are some of the most deprived and under privileged and that the UK is one of the most, if not the most, tolerant, unracist countries in the world.

In terms of wealth beyond measure there could easily be a consensus reached - there are an increasing number of billionaires who will never in their lifetimes be able to spend what they hoard.

The money is seen as a measure of success which is why it is so important to them - lets start handing out medals and stickers instead!

Our top rate of income tax is the lowest it has ever been - post war it was 90%, even under Thatcher it was 60%.

The Thatcher government preferred 'indirect taxation' and raised VAT from 8% to 15% to enable cuts to income tax. This meant poorer people paid more tax while higher earners paid less tax.

The current tax thresholds are too low with cliff edge drop - but I would love to see VAT reduced and income tax increased for higher earners, with increases on capital gains tax and tax on investment dividends. Bring back 90% income tax on anything earned over £1million!

By everyone working together, I mean putting an end to the current polarisation. We don't all agree, but with compromise there has to be common ground that will make things better for everyone.

Other than the uber wealthy and the zealots, can anyone say they are truly happy in a world where it has become more important to 'own' the opposition than to actually make a difference?

The conservatives used to be a party that believed in lowering taxes, especially those on businesses. But the last 14 years of Tory gov couldn’t or didn’t do anything in this regard.

The Conservatives did cut taxes. Eg here's a summary of their 2015 manifesto.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32302062

(IIRC they did so again 2017, though I CBA to dig up a ref so will stand corrected on that if I'm wrong.)

Unfortunately this meant they cut the spending on health and support for the disabled and low income families with children.

It degraded the NHS significantly, while hiding behind the rhetoric that the sum going to the NHS wasn't being cut... but not increased in line with the aging population, and meanwhile the health and social care budget which keeps people out of hospital was slashed.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/news-item/what-was-austeritys-toll-on-the-nhs-before-the-pandemic

Plus the bots push fake support in both directions for a good old stir

Exactly.
This the exact tactic that has been used in Eastern Ukraine since 2014 by Putin: he didn’t have to prove to them that he’s telling the truth, he only needed to prove that NOONE is telling the truth.

it is the main building block of russian propaganda

Regardless of whether you think it's 'obnoxious', that's very much reality. There is nothing working class about the Reform party itself - look at who they've got as MPs/potential MPs, still loads of Oxbridge people who've never known what it feels like to be skint, most of them are ex-Tories and Farage himself is an ultra-privileged ex-public schoolboy. Reform's policies are designed to funnel wealth upwards, not downwards to ordinary people.

I appreciate the white working class feel left behind (although I would dispute that they're any more left behind than any other element of the working class) but thinking Reform is going to save them is, unfortunately, them being massively played. Tommy Robinson may be wheeled out as a sort of useful idiot (an ex football hooligan who founded the EDL - he's as racist as they come so it's disingenous to pretend race isn't a key element of Reform's efforts at whipping up support) to try and pretend Reform is the part of the working classes, but he won't be allowed anywhere near hard power. It'll be more of the same, but worse. They function by encouraging the white working class to punch down instead of looking up, so literally all they'll realistically be offering them is the chance to do just that, while they raid the economy for their own personal gain.

I would totally support this IF it could work. The problem is that I can envisage a lot of uber wealthy would simply mibr their domicile status to somewhere with lower tax regimes. Then we’d effectively lose the revenue we get from them atm.
Unless we can get global agreement on tax rates - I just don’t think it works - and would worsen the lives of the poorest who can’t move.

Agree with this.
Posters assuming there must be lots of paid bots on MN, do they genuinely find it inconceivable that others might have different opinions and experiences to them?
Fwiw, I’m an EU immigrant living in the UK and I wasn’t in favour of Brexit at the time, but I wouldn’t call everyone who voted or expressed their support for it a bigot or a bot.