Charlie Kirk- and the reality

[Tandora]

So here we are- they have a suspect.
The very little we know about his politics suggests he was likely to be right wing, and came from a family/ culture that supported Trump. He also is said to be an introvert, in to video games , and possibly quite mentally unwell.

So there we have it- fancy that - when you live in a context where people have access to guns and some minority of people are not well, people get shot.

Nothing to do with the evils of the “left”. Nothing to do with trans people or “trans ideology”. Just senseless violence, because people who are not well have access to guns.

So what are we going to take/ learn from this?

AIBU?

He didn't hide them, that's the point.

I don't think he was really a good faith debater; it was performance art and platforming, really, and I don't think he was ever open to having his mind changed. But he didn't hide what he thought. If he had, he'd still be alive.

I don't think it's a free speech thing really, though. It's a mad American shooting thing. They have insane gun laws that will never change and so people who want to murder will find it much easier to do. He was not killed by the state, although his murderer might be.

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast that was someone else up thread who brought up genocide.

@Insanityisnotastrategyand my point was that people thumb it in where ever they can and claim there is “silence” on the matter. When actually, it’s the loudest foghorn there is at the moment. It’s other atrocities that are being silenced.

Anyway, nothing to do with this thread, you’re right;, it just angers me when people are screaming there is no noise about Palestine, when that is clearly not the case.

And there is it. I can’t think why many people aren’t more sympathetic to your viewpoint.

I am baffled as to why people keep bringing up Islam into this- this is nothing but appalling racialised stereotyping. I doubt you have the least understanding of sharia law.

The ideas promoted by Charlie Kirt were misogynistic and a threat to the rights of women and girls. The promotion of these ideas absolutely uphold the conditions that result in domestic violence , rape and gross inequalities between men and women more broadly. Just as promoting the right to own a gun create the conditions for gun violence. It is not “hysterical” to acknowledge this, indeed it should be bleeding obvious to any vaguely moderate , decent and half educated person in Britain in 2025.

These ideas are harmful, dangerous and they are not justified by - or the inevitable consequence of - being a Christian , a Muslim , or any other characteristic or faith . There are millions of people of faith of all types who believe in the full and equal humanity of women on a equal basis to men, and the right of women and girls to be educated , work outside the home and play a full variety of roles in society , again on an equal basis with men.

why? Because I am drawing attention to the obscene hypocrisy?

So you want to shut down anyone with ideas that you don’t agree with? Paint their ideas as dangerous based on your opinion? You don’t see how that could be problematic?

We know, but we're pro debate.

So, you debate against them. Make your voice heard, let people know you disagree. You don’t silence everyone who is saying them.

You clearly feel strongly about religious patriarchy, people are asking if it’s only Christianity or all religions that you will criticise?

I think it’s a grim irony they shot out his throat. They want us silenced. By whatever means.

I don’t think it’s ok to shoot someone for their ideas .

I believe in freedom of speech.

However, when someone says something harmful and dangerous, it should not be minimised . It is not ok to normalise patriarchy/ misogyny any more than it’s ok to normalise racism. People are all over these threads trying to pretend what CK stood for was harmless and moderate and an inevitable consequence of being Christian. That is completely false and v dangerous. CK’s ideas were not harmless, they were dangerous. And the ongoing rhetoric of his supporters is too,

This is an overly simplistic view of the matter.

Wow OP.

You know absolutely nothing about why this man assassinated another man yet here you are desperate to absolve the left.
Except it turns out it was probably very much rooted in trans issues given that he lived with one.

No, I'm not. Please reread my post instead of giving a a kneejerk response. I was replying to a poster who rightfully corrected another claiming there is 'silence' over Palestinians. She said there is silence over other atrocities such as against Christians in Congo, and I agreed. Sorry if you have a problem with that interaction but you are not the thread police.

Why? when I’ve been abundantly clear on that point several times:

Who is “they” and who is “us” please?

Yes, this is why Reddit and similar ideologically moderated sites are so useful for controlling the narrative and spreading fake news. On this site, these things can be challenged.

Well considering the suspect came from a very right wing, gun obsessed family. I’d say focusing on right wing ideology as opposed to left is probably prudent.

Where is your evidence the attack was rooted in trans issues?

Repellant you you. Fine, you’re allowed to feel that way. Others agreed with him. They’re allowed to.

What’s the problem?

Yes exactly. If anything they're doubling down on y'all not gonna take our guns off us, m'kay. Anyone who says anything negative about this guy is being doxed and reported to their employers who FIRE them! It's on a YouTube channel.

And again people would plop into long established threads where the evidence had been discussed many times over and claim some third hand Reddit bollocks was true.

It’s not prudent. It’s just chiming with what some want to say.

Indeed. Who taught him to shoot?

Really don't care who you quote, it's the children who will suffer