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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be saddened that anyone would want to take away a woman’s right to safe abortion?

1000 replies

Balayagequeen · 13/09/2025 14:48

It makes me sad and angry that there are so many people who believe that a woman’s right to a termination is up for debate/political football.

It’s always privileged men too.

No woman should be forced to continue with a pregnancy that she doesn’t want.

An abortion is a very safe, simple procedure, it’s a personal and private choice, it’s discreet, no one is ramming it down anyone else’s throat or trying to persuade others to do it. The vast majority of the time is done very early on in the pregnancy. Evidence shows that there are no long term negative physical or mental effects on the woman.

As someone who works for children’s services, there are already far too many children in the care system and they can end up deeply traumatised, and having poor outcomes in life, adoptions often don’t work out and even when they do can be extremely traumatic for both the mother and child. That is not to take away from all of the wonderful adoptive parents and foster carers, but please let’s not romanticise it.

Most adoptions are because the birth parents are unable to care for the child, not because the mother willingly gave the baby up. Therefore to force a woman to give birth would potentially be the worse option for the woman, the child and any existing siblings. It isn’t a fairytale ending where a woman willingly gives up her baby to a loving couple to live happily ever after.

There are babies conceived in poverty, domestic abuse, rape, teenage pregnancies, older age pregnancies. These women should not be forced to give birth, it is not the better option for anyone.

If abortion was ever restricted in the western world then I have no doubt that it would result in unsafe illegal abortions, risking the woman’s life.

Women take all the risk with pregnancy and childbirth. They take an enormous toll on a woman body, her mental health, her life outcomes. We are not living in the dark ages, women deserve the choice.

What right does any privileged male who has probably never experienced any of these things and has probably done very little child rearing, who can never conceive or give birth, have to try to restrict a women’s access to abortion?

Are they themselves going to care for the babies born? Or will they expect that someone else will do it?

OP posts:
dizzydizzydizzy · 14/09/2025 04:52

I don't think I could ever have an abortion myself but I would very strongly defend every woman's right to have one if she wanted one. I don't think men should have a lot of say in the matter either.

Booboobagins · 14/09/2025 05:08

How can 15% of votes be that YABU?

The mind boggles.

My body, my choice.

End of.

YANBU @Balayagequeen

thepariscrimefiles · 14/09/2025 05:51

Elsvieta · 13/09/2025 20:33

It's taking a human life. You presumably don't consider it to be a "personal and private choice" when someone decides to kill a human being who's outside a uterus. It's not personal, because there's a victim, who's a separate person.

No doubt you don't and won't accept that. But if you're so pro personal choice, surely you should acknowledge the right of people of both sexes to make their own personal choice to do what they can to defend the most innocent and defenceless people there are? You think you can make the choice to terminate a whole human existence, but nobody else can make the choice to open their mouth and say "this is wrong"? Come on. You have the right, under the law of the land as it stands, to make this choice; be happy with that. You do not have the right to immunity from anyone else criticizing your choices. Just like with anything else, really.

Of course people can say that they think that abortion is wrong. Fortunately in the UK, there are exclusion zones around abortion clinics so that anti-abortion zealots can't harass women accessing abortion services, unlike in the USA.

I also judge people who are anti-abortion but who agree with the two-child benefit cap and those in the USA, who are anti-abortion zealots in all circumstances including rape and incest but support the 2nd amendment as they think that the deaths of children in school shootings are a price worth paying for them to have access to guns.

TeaForTheTillermanSteakForTheSun · 14/09/2025 06:22

Bbq1 · 13/09/2025 23:59

@TeaForTheTillermanSteakForTheSun
A wide choice of easily accessible birth control is available to most women. Why don't the majority try using that, rather than using abortion as a form of contraception? Use birth control and they can happily "live the life they want".

No contraception is 100% reliable.

Birth control isn't easily accessible to everyone either.

'The majority' clearly do use birth control successfully, as the majority of women in the UK haven't had an abortion.

Things happen along the way and, thankfully, abortion is an option so women can live the life they want.

If your world is so small that you can't imagine a world in which abortion is needed because contraception is available then I envy your niavety honestly, I wish I didn't know about all the shitty things that women have to endure.

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 06:30

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:35

Yes that is pretty much what I’m saying, an otherwise healthy 3rd trimester foetus doesn’t need to be killed before delivery to save a woman’s life

Blimey and I’m the “thick as shit one”?

Who said a healthy fetus does? Where have you read this on this thread? Are you ok?

I think you need to go to bed.

Please do give me examples of medical cases where a foetus needs to be killed through feticide in order to save the life of the pregnant woman, as opposed to simply being delivered.

You won’t, because you can’t.

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 06:32

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:04

The death of a WNATED baby will impact others.

The “death” of an unwanted “baby” affects precisely one person.

Thats the difference. Because the woman is the only relevant person in deciding if a baby is wanted or not.

Yoy anti choice people seem to think there is a magical line somewhere - and forget that actually it’s all down to the woman who you don’t give a shit about

I’m not anti choice, I just don’t agree with your arguments.

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 06:48

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:45

What would be the benefit of lowering it? What does it save, who does it serve?

To prevent an otherwise healthy and viable foetus of 22/23/24 weeks from being aborted for the mother’s personal reasons. It’s not common but it does happen. There comes a point where a woman has to accept that she has missed the boat for an abortion.

The current 24 week cut off was set based on the concept of foetal viability. It was initially put at 28 weeks, then lowered as medical advances meant very premature babies were surviving. Stands to reason that it could be lowered again to reflect the further advances.

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 06:52

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 13/09/2025 23:12

Yes I’m sure you are a solicitor 😂if you are then no wonder the legal system is fucked

🙄 would you like me to send over my SRA number?

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 06:53

Firefly1987 · 14/09/2025 00:40

I really wish the fundamentalist Christians would stay out of other people's business. It's the same with the assisted dying debate (looking at you Baroness May) this country affords you the right to practice your religion freely, not to use it as a way to exert control on others! You don't want an abortion? You're free to not have one. Don't want assisted dying? Also free to choose to suffer in agony til the bitter end. You don't have the right to take choice away from others.

I don’t agree abortion and assisted dying are the same. Assisted dying is a decision made by the person who will die.

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 06:58

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 01:14

Are you under the impression that there’s an abundance of high quality adopters out there??

If you feel like being depressed for a little while, look up statistics on the life course of children in care. Many of them never experience love.

But hey as long as they’re taking that first breath, fuck them for the rest of their miserable lives, and bollocks the woman who was forced to birth them, right

There’s demand for babies. Generally boys older than 2 will stay in the system for life, for girls its 3. So removing a child asap is arguably the best strategy to get the most stable upbringing. But that’s another thread.

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 06:59

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:38

What did I deny??

How am I contradicting myself? I said I agree with current laws. Nothing I’ve said contradicts that. Only a simpleton would draw that conclusion.

They don’t feel pain from abortions. Their hearts stop.
But even if they did - so what. Someone had to. Better a fetus, completely unaware and not out in the world and no idea what it is, feel momentary pain than a actually loving woman is forced to give birth and two peoples lives are turned upside down and probably made miserable.

The above is what you said to another poster.

You have previously agreed that current medical opinion says a foetus under 24 weeks doesn’t feel pain. And only foetus’s past 22 weeks are given medication to stop their heart as I have informed you.

Ergo, I conclude that in the above you are referring to your support of late-term abortion.

Although FYI, you should probably be aware that by that point in the pregnancy, giving birth is an inevitability. The only question is whether or not the foetus is alive at the time.

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 07:04

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:38

What did I deny??

How am I contradicting myself? I said I agree with current laws. Nothing I’ve said contradicts that. Only a simpleton would draw that conclusion.

Your opinion on late term abortions.

your posting on that subject has been some of the most convoluted and contradictory I’ve ever seen on mumsnet! Although I think that’s probably lack of understanding rather than a genuine conflict of opinion. Feel free to confirm.

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 07:09

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:41

Convenient your abortion is fine but other women’s abortions aren’t and are “baby killers” and “monsters”. who are you judge? How arrogant to think your viewpoint is king.

I’d challenge you to find ONE woman who wants an abortion at 38 weeks for lifestyle reason. They don’t exist, they’re the mythical monster weaponised by pro life half wits, and it’s futile even talking about hypotheticals. But again, crack on making things up if it makes you happy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-65882169.amp

ok she was 32-24 weeks but it didn’t take long to find one.

Catwalking · 14/09/2025 07:10

So, Itmakesme “ Killing someone isn’t necessary where people are supported in their death processes.”
Even if they very badly want (so badly they’re starving themselves) to die?
(& yes, my DH’s Godmother did this).

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 07:10

by that point in the pregnancy, giving birth is an inevitability. The only question is whether or not the foetus is alive at the time.

Yes the foetus has to exit either way - so the forced birth argument falls down there.

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 07:11

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 06:30

Please do give me examples of medical cases where a foetus needs to be killed through feticide in order to save the life of the pregnant woman, as opposed to simply being delivered.

You won’t, because you can’t.

If anything logic would say that ensuring the baby has died and delivering treatment to do that would actually delay the birth.

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 07:21

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 02:41

Convenient your abortion is fine but other women’s abortions aren’t and are “baby killers” and “monsters”. who are you judge? How arrogant to think your viewpoint is king.

I’d challenge you to find ONE woman who wants an abortion at 38 weeks for lifestyle reason. They don’t exist, they’re the mythical monster weaponised by pro life half wits, and it’s futile even talking about hypotheticals. But again, crack on making things up if it makes you happy

Yes I do think gestation is important. An abortion at 8 weeks is not the same as an abortion at 38 weeks.

I don’t need to find a woman who wants an abortion at 38 weeks. Just the theoretical idea of one is enough to say we need a law in place to prevent it from ever happening.

It’s like saying let’s legalise infanticide because no one would ever be depraved enough to do it. Sadly, there are, and they do. It’s rare, but there are some fucked up people in this world.

Convenient your abortion is fine but other women’s abortions aren’t and are “baby killers” and “monsters”. who are you judge? How arrogant to think your viewpoint is king.

I still can’t work out your stance on this, can you clarify? Are you saying you think a woman who wants a late term abortion is as reasonable and justified as one who wants a first trimester abortion? But then you also state that you don’t agree with late term abortions and want it to remain illegal other than for medical necessity?

And you wonder why I find your posts contradictory!

Lelophants · 14/09/2025 07:23

ProfessionalPirate · 14/09/2025 07:21

Yes I do think gestation is important. An abortion at 8 weeks is not the same as an abortion at 38 weeks.

I don’t need to find a woman who wants an abortion at 38 weeks. Just the theoretical idea of one is enough to say we need a law in place to prevent it from ever happening.

It’s like saying let’s legalise infanticide because no one would ever be depraved enough to do it. Sadly, there are, and they do. It’s rare, but there are some fucked up people in this world.

Convenient your abortion is fine but other women’s abortions aren’t and are “baby killers” and “monsters”. who are you judge? How arrogant to think your viewpoint is king.

I still can’t work out your stance on this, can you clarify? Are you saying you think a woman who wants a late term abortion is as reasonable and justified as one who wants a first trimester abortion? But then you also state that you don’t agree with late term abortions and want it to remain illegal other than for medical necessity?

And you wonder why I find your posts contradictory!

Thank you

RedSkyatNight25 · 14/09/2025 07:25

There’s plenty of examples of women who kill their newborns in an attempt to conceal the
birth, having already concealed the pregnancy. So it’s not difficult to imagine there are women who would abort a full term baby.

Squishydishy · 14/09/2025 07:27

I would only want abortion to be legal up to around 14 weeks. I don’t think women should be able to abort beyond 20 weeks ever unless for TFMR or rape

TeaForTheTillermanSteakForTheSun · 14/09/2025 07:41

Squishydishy · 14/09/2025 07:27

I would only want abortion to be legal up to around 14 weeks. I don’t think women should be able to abort beyond 20 weeks ever unless for TFMR or rape

I don't get the 'for rape' argument at all.

How is a fetus conceived by rape any different from a fetus conceived by consensual sex, if you believe the fetus has more rights than the woman carrying it?

With the disgustingly low convictions of rape in this country, how will it be proven which pregnancies were the result of rape? Do we have to wait for a trial and a verdict?

I have more respect for the pro forced birthers who don't differentiate between pregnancies conceived through rape and consensual sex, at least they are consistent.

Your stance just means that you think a woman has to be horrifically violated in order to have rights to her own body. It's absolute misogyny to think a woman shouldn't have the same rights to an abortion if the sex was consensual.

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 07:45

BooneyBeautiful · 14/09/2025 03:15

DD's friend has never used contraception with any of her numerous boyfriends. She has had at least three abortions. She is pregnant again now with her latest boyfriend, but is delighted and has decided to keep the baby. She already has two, much older, DC.

Another girl I know of struggles with hormonal contraception, and her boyfriend refuses to use a condom. This has led to two abortions.

Surely abortion shouldn't be used as a method of contraception? Although I don't see how things can be changed.

Both these cases make me very sad.

There should be any reason for abortion up to the legal limit. If we start legislating based on worthy and unworthy reasons you get into a dangerous area where forced birth is a moral and righteous punishment for “silly women”

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 07:48

Itmakesme · 14/09/2025 04:25

I mean she’s absolutely right - that’s the entire point of many barristers - to argue the grey….

But hey sure go ahead and personally attack her and suggest the legal system doesn’t work because you’re angry. That’s clever.

Can you give me a grey area example please?

Im not angry, im just right

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 07:50

Itmakesme · 14/09/2025 04:32

I mean are you ok?

You can’t operate on a moving patient - but also in the same breath it’s ok to kill a moving patient?

So the cluster of cells / embryo / baby has to be immobile? Where is your evidence?

Babies are operated on in utero frequently. It’s a hole branch of surgery and the cells / fetus / baby isn’t immobile.

Fetal surgery can treat the following fetal conditions:

  • Monochorionic twin complications.
  • Spina bifida (myelomeningocele).
  • Congenital (present at birth) lung malformations.
  • Congenital diaphragmatic hernia.
  • Congenital high airway obstruction syndrome.
  • Mediastinal or pericardial teratoma.
  • Sacrococcygeal teratoma.
  • Amniotic band syndrome.
  • Lower urinary tract obstruction.
  • Large neck masses that cause airway compression (teratoma or lymphatic malformation).

A woman still matters more

LayerCakeOfStrangers · 14/09/2025 07:51

Booboobagins · 14/09/2025 05:08

How can 15% of votes be that YABU?

The mind boggles.

My body, my choice.

End of.

YANBU @Balayagequeen

Because, like it always does, the anti choice klaxon has sounded somewhere.

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