To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

The trans issue was brought in on the second post, not by me. It’s highly relevant to why women are turning away from the left. I am such a woman and the OP claimed to want to understand. I’m sorry that doesn’t fit your own cognitive bias 🤷‍♀️

This issue is going to rip every single left leaning party in two. Mark my words.

At least Trump and Farage know what a woman is, and can define it.

You have to know what a woman is if you want to discuss ‘removal of their rights’

Do you think the women currently locked up in prison with men see these as 'luxury problems? The women in domestic violence refuges? The sick and disabled women who can't be guaranteed woman-only intimate care?

Its the most vulnerable women in society suffering most from pretending men can be women.

Agreed.

What’s a familiar Mumsnet phrase? The first post nails it?

Why are so many women backing Trump and Farage? Because left parties are backing men over women. Siding with men who say they are women over women who say they aren’t. They are removing their rights as a sex class.
Many women feel they have no where else to go, despite Trump and Farage being clearly no friends of women. You should be be able to define one though if you want to tackle the issues that affect them.

Try reading the thread before falling over yourself to deem everything anti-trans (when it’s actually men. Millionth and one now).

Trump et al may be anti-trans, but they’re certainly not pro-woman.

I never said they were. Did you miss the bit where I wrote ‘being clearly no friends of women’?. I mean you’ve actually quoted me.

Exactly.

And I did read the full thread @AccidentallyWesAnderson. It was bought up that women are voting for people who actively want to remove many of their rights over one issue, the trans issue. I think this is true but I don't see why it needed to to devolve into the same old arguments about single sex spaces, what is a woman and the same handful of posters making more than half of the posts on every single page saying the same things they've been saying for years, AGAIN.

I just don't think it's productive, or in the spirit of what the thread is about.

Because they are directly related. Hence why it’s been brought up. Why is this so difficult to understand.

The sealioning about why women want single sex spaces has mostly not come from the GC women on the thread. I’m afraid you’re just going to have to accept that many women consider this highly relevant. Or did you just want to have a handwringing thread about women you disapprove of without hearing from them at all?

Choice between bad, and slightly less bad.

To me the question "why do you care more about the trans issue than abortion rights, up skirting, maternity protections etc."

Is not answered by the question "what is a woman?" Or "let's rehash the trans issue AGAIN". None of that debate, which has been had a million times, actually answers the first question does it? It's related, loosely, but it doesn't answer the question.

This issue contributed to Trump getting in, it certainly didn’t help Kamala Harris (Kamala is for they/them, President Trump is for you), it did for Nicola Sturgeon and to an extent undermined the SNP in the eyes of the electorate in Scotland. It utterly beclowns politicians and makes them unelectable. It saw off the ridiculous Women’s Equality Party. It’s tearing apart the Greens, Your Party, Labour and the Lib Dems. When will people wake up to how stupid and misogynistic it is?

You have to agree on the definitions of words before you can have a discussion.

They are. It’s obvious the pendulum is now swinging the other way, thankfully.

Just because it’s not answered FOR YOU doesn’t mean it’s not important for others. For others yes, they want a party who will say what a woman is and now bow down to those who put the rights of men over women, aka rabid trans ideology. So they will vote elsewhere. Which is what the thread is about.

It doesn’t matter that the “debate” has been had a million times. Women here have a right to discuss where they believe the left is going wrong.

That you can’t see it and just think of it as a “debate” that no one can win is really telling @GreenFairy93 and speaks to the myopia on the left. Why did you want to participate on a thread examining why women vote for parties you personally dislike and consider harmful without women with a better understanding contributing? How is that supposed to win them over?

I am a former Green and Labour member and GC feminist for a decade, during some of which time I was a member of those parties. I know what I’m talking about regards the problems on the left.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5412492-trans-row-threatens-to-overshadow-lib-dem-conference?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5394557-your-corbynsultana-party-discussion-thread?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5410646-scottish-government-to-take-on-fws-in-new-trans-court-fight?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5328986-greens-internal-drama-warms-up?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

For the umpteenth time, when we say women’s rights, we mean women’s rights. If other people leap to conclusions and assume women’s rights = anti-trans, we can’t help that. It’s not a “dog whistle” as some extreme TRAs world have you believe. I’m more than happy for people to be as gender non-conforming as they wish, I’m happy that gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, I am as courteous and civil to any transwomen I encounter as I am with any other stranger. As long as everyone uses the services and facilities appropriate for their biological sex, I’m good.

The OP asked why women were voting in a way that appeared (from OP’s perspective) to be against their interests. She’s had the answer. It boils down to different women having different opinions on what their best interests are. They’ve been explained over and over again on this thread, I’m not sure why it’s so hard to grasp.