To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

Many other people have already posted links to their podcasts upthread. There’s nothing to stop you listening for yourself.

Go ahead and listen to their podcast. See if you can find any independent thoughts.

Well if there’s one where he’s clearly said his wife isn’t allowed her own opinions why don’t you post it? Why do I need to go hunting through all these podcasts for something you’ve cited?

Why do I need to justify myself to you when you are perfectly capable of looking it up 🤷‍♀️

At the very least, such an exercise might help one to understand why people who hold such views believe them to be pro-women, even if you end up disagreeing with them either on diagnosis or approach.

Many conservative views on "women's place" can be better understood if you see what they are reacting to in our current liberal/progressive society: women expected to sleep with men on the first date (with some light strangulation on the side), mocked for being too needy if they expect a proposal after 5 years, exhausted after juggling male-pattern careers that peak at the same time as childbearing years, expected to consider surrogacy and prostitution as empowering career choices, expected to share their changing rooms and crisis centres with men, not able to quit to raise children if they want to because the economy is based on two-earner couples, funding their own maternity leaves because their partners don't step up, (in the US) sending 3mo olds to full time daycare, dealing with rising rates of divorce and single motherhood, or increasingly being childless not by choice but by circumstance because the dating market is totally fucked up...

Now, one might consider a range of different solutions to such problems, or weight them differently, and there are people on all sides of politics who engage productively with such issues instead of either ignoring or celebrating them.

But attitudes like the OP's of "please validate my belief that women turn to the right or vote pragmatically against the left because they are stupid and dumb and have been brainwashed by their husbands" piss me off. If you think any group are consistently voting against their interests, you have failed to understand what their interests are.

There, was that long enough? I'll add a smiley 😊

When you make an argument or assert something as fact, the onus is on you to support it. The onus is not on the other person to find it out for themselves. If you don't feel like you need to do that then that's fine but then people will just draw their own conclusions.

Well if one makes a bold statement such as yours you should be able to easily back it up 🤷‍♀️. I’m going to hazard a guess and say he didn’t say that.

You don’t have to, of course. But the standard convention is that the onus is on the person making the assertion to back up their case with evidence, not for everyone else to go off hunting for it.

If you don’t back up your claims, people will just assume that’s because you can’t.

Thick ? Really ? The people who are turning to Reform are some of the most disenfranchised in the country. They have been let down by successive governments over decades and you wonder why they’re disillusioned ?

Hahahahaha! Jess “I don’t want an inquiry into the rape gangs” Philips. The same Jess “transwomen are women” Phillips?

The links that people are posting aren’t directly to his podcasts. Most of the stuff online taken from his podcasts are sound bytes, carefully selected by different individuals and organisations, and clipped with no context as to the conversation in which they were said - designed to support the narrative of whatever the poster supports. There is nothing online to support that Charlie Kirk said his wife isn’t allowed her own opinions. What he said was that if a wife was voting a different way from her husband she should be truthful about it and there should be debate about the difference of opinion. Not that she should vote the same way as her husband just because he said so.

I don’t support Charlie Kirk - I disagree with almost everything he stood for. But misquoting and misrepresenting what the man actually said doesn’t do anyone any good.

Of course they do, but only if you do it THEIR way!

The tone carries across all their podcasts. It’s pervasive - you have to listen to them for yourself. As to specifics, when asked about his relationship with his wife, he said

1. “Women should look for men who have self control; men should look for women who are willing to submit, basically a non‑feminist woman.”

Women who are submitting to their husbands in all things are not having their own opinions.

absolutely agree 100%

Which is not saying that his wife should vote the same way he does, simply because he said so.

I wonder why men want women to submit to them financially 😅😆

Yes. I've read about his wife amd she seems a nice person, obviously she must be in terrible pain now. 😢

Real shame she promotes this submission rubbish, it's v common sadly in the US evangelical world. They call it 'complementarian' and insist submission doesn't mean women aren't equal, but that's double-sprak if ever I heard it.

Do you think it's good for women to submit to their husband in all things? All things surely would include voting, no?

If we allow men pretending to be women to redefine the term ‘woman’ in law, to include the male sex, then we would simply have no rights at all.

The definition of a woman is fundamental to us having any rights. We would be returned to the days, in the not so distant past, when we were the property of men, and were bought and sold for their convenience. If you are unaware of what life was like for women, and still is in some countries, I suggest you read up on the subject, before you so casually hand our hard fought for rights over to men pretending to be women. Gender ideology is the biggest red flag being waved at women right now, it is the ultimate form of control, and because you want to be seen as progressive and kind by ignoring that, doesn’t mean that all women have to.

I’m no fan of him but that’s not the same as saying ‘my wife shouldn’t have her own opinions’.

I did qualify what I said - I disagree with virtually everything the man said, but context is everything and in this particular misquote he wasn’t saying a woman should submit to her husband in voting, but that if there was a fundamental difference of opinion she should not lie, but engage in the debate. The comment was made around a particularly vapid and patronising American advertisement designed to remind women that they had their own minds and should vote their own way.

OP, you seem to have missed out the most important, prescient and terrifying threat of all for some reason? Being called a birthing person whilst men are now called women; rampantly colonising womanhood for their own perverted pleasures.

This. All day long.

What do you think “submitting to her husband in all things” means?

We’re not allowed to discuss that apparently, it’s ‘tedious’.