Thread 2 Turn your son in knowing he’d get the death penalty

[Idinnaenah]

1st thread is full - this is to continue the convo. My original question is below:

’Kirk’s killer has apparently been turned in by his family - or persuaded to hand himself in.
Trump &’his supporters have been very vocal about getting the death penalty for the shooter.
would YOU hand your child over, knowing that the electric chair would be the likely outcome?

YANBU - I wouldn’t turn him in to die.
YABU - I would he’s a killer and deserves all he gets

You can ‘lol’ all you like if it makes you feel better about finding the below funny. Regardless of my views on gender ideology and how it impacts women and children I wouldn’t laugh at the same or promote it.

One thing that has become clear is how being decent re CK is easily lost by some.

That’s fine. I didn’t ask you to find it funny 🤷🏼‍♀️.

I didn’t say you did 🤷‍♀️

I do think nastiness from some has been evident.

@Tandora I’m not talking about debate in general- I’m speaking of the way in which people interact on mumsnet. Your posts being a good demonstration:

😂😂

Thank you for confirming that what you meant is not what you said. I could find your words very hurty - if they had any power. 😆

you’re picking apart @Tandora ’s response to a conversation we were having about the way some people on MN debate.
I see it everyone all over most threads - especially political ones and I personally find it quite jarring.
It irks me especially as we were basically both saying that while we may not agree with each other on everything, that we probably have more in common that we realise

I personally didn’t find that last part about people changing their minds patronising at all. I agree with it.

And as if a trans person, specifically a man, can have any insight or sensitivity at all of what it is to be a woman. It doesn't stop 'em stamping their size 10s though, wringing their hairy hands, and clutching at their pearl necklaces demanding to use women's spaces. That last sentence was unnecessary, but what the heck, I'm human. My bad. I always get a 'head picture' of Cissy and Ada. 😁

But that's not the topic of this thread.

It's a public message board, we are allowed to respond to any posts that take our fancy. The way people 'debate' (or don't) interests me.

Our opinion differs and that's okay.

I agree. This posters debating ‘style’ is not conducive to reasonable, logical or respectful debating. It’s sneering, gloating, passive aggressive retorts, misquoting and hypocrisy. It is why those posters who provide thoughtful, reasoned and eloquent arguments stop engaging. It seems to be happening on all these threads.

.

Not sure what you are reading tbh.

I could find your words very hurty

yes great example.

No it’s not the topic of this thread; so please take your transphobia elsewhere. there’s a whole board for it.

Yes to Voltaire, a good quote.

The MAGA lot are doing their best to show that the shooter was some kind of mad godless lefty but he’s one of them … Christian, churchgoing, gun toting, republican family…
mot serves no-one to try to start some kind of ‘holy’ war over this killing.

Doesn't it just. I'm looking forward to when this flurry of activity from some of our new friends on the boards burns itself out, and we can go back to engaging honestly rather than being politely smothered.

We have his texts sent to his trans ID boyfriend where he admits he’d ’had enough of his hatred’.

He is a radical leftist who killed an innocent because of his own intolerance, it was a massive projection all along. Here’s the NYT link to his texts:

www.nytimes.com/live/2025/09/16/us/kirk-shooting-suspect-charges?unlocked_article_code=1.mU8.xROf.-CcqdJQbgtFp&smid=url-share

This murder IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT than all the other murders that happen in September 2025. For me the final tragedy is that people are trying to make out this murder matters more than all the others.

So many tragedies.
Definites:
Children lost their dad.
Wife lost a beloved husband, CK's parents, friends and family will grieve too.
TR (very young man) ruined the rest of his own life.

Probables:
TR's parents & family will lose a beloved family member.
TR's lover will lose a future they might have had together.

The other tragedies, people will bicker about. Depends whether someone believes in "Evil LBGQT ideology made TR violent" or "Bigoted culture rejected the essence of who TR was and he couldn't stand it so lashed out" .

It is important in the sense he was a public figure and was shot because of his beliefs.

We always knew what these people were capable of, they proudly made death threats against their perceived enemies. Look under any GC post on X and you’ll see it over and over again.

Law enforcement never took their threats seriously, instead they arrest Graham Linehan at the airport for his dangerous speech …

We always knew what these people were capable of, they proudly made death threats against their perceived enemies. Look under any GC post on X and you’ll see it over and over again.

”these people”? What people? Capable of murder? You always knew? This is hate speech.

We really do have to stop buying into the media/political spin of pitting left against right. Of course there are extremists on both sides but the majority of people are not at the extremes. A lot of people are middle of the road and would agree with the left about some issues and the right about other issues.

I do think politicians fuel this view of seeing anyone with opposing views as crazy and the enemy, etc...it helps them win votes. But it fuels violence and hatred.

Of course Graham Lineham being arrested was bonkers, and I think most left wing people would agree. Minority TRAs will be delighted. The same way a minority of right wing BNP types will be delighted about attacks against people from ethnic minorities but most people who vote Tory or even Reform would say that any attacks are wrong.

I'm only guessing but I'd say PP means people like these, the ones making many thousands of posts threatening sexual and physical violence to women who disagree with them:

https://terfisaslur.com/

I have read all the OPs updates butbnotball posts but I read that his father works in law enforcement. He had no choice in persuading his son to give himself up. Also isn't it possible in at least some states fir tge parents to ge held accountable for their children's crimes? As a parent would you be prepared to spend time on prison yourself ,because of a crime your child committed? Especially if you have other children?.

@RingoJuice :
What exactly makes "beliefs" as motive a murder more important than being in the wrong place at the wrong time or pissing off or scaring a different deranged violent person for another reason?

Why are shootings of public figures more important than shootings of not public figures? Just because you heard of the guy's death does not mean the reason for his death is a problem that society needs to prioritise fixing over every other reason bad things happen, especially murders.

Or is your idea of importance = "we aren't talking about the other murders".

Let's talk about the other murders that happened this month in Utah alone. Where would you like to start?

Oh give over. I'm politically left wing and wouldn't dream of using a sexist slur against another woman and immediately challenged that poster myself. Equally there are plenty of right wing people with appallingly sexist attitudes. Just stop with the left/right nonsense and call out posters if you need to for the specific thing they've said rather than jumping on the opportunity to lump all things bad with a particular political stance. And before you tell me 'the left' do that too, I'll save you the bother. Yes, some do. I don't support that either.

I participated in a thread about Iryna Zarutska, an innocent young woman who was randomly stabbed in the neck by a man with at least 14 priors to his name. We can still talk about that one if you like, but not on this thread. There’s a lot to unpack about urbanism and soft-on-crime policies. But … not on this thread.

Crime sparks discussion when it’s someone you are familiar with, or someone you identify with. Why do you think Sarah Everard’s murder was discussed so much? She symbolized the dangers we all face when just walking home …. It could have been any of us

Those are misogynistic murders against women @RingoJuice