Thread 2 Turn your son in knowing he’d get the death penalty

[Idinnaenah]

1st thread is full - this is to continue the convo. My original question is below:

’Kirk’s killer has apparently been turned in by his family - or persuaded to hand himself in.
Trump &’his supporters have been very vocal about getting the death penalty for the shooter.
would YOU hand your child over, knowing that the electric chair would be the likely outcome?

YANBU - I wouldn’t turn him in to die.
YABU - I would he’s a killer and deserves all he gets

@5128gap @Tandora I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but with such little humanity around at the moment, I am heartened by your exchanges ❤️

I agree.

Sorry, but anyone believing that load of horse shit needs to get a grip! What else? The earth’s flat? The world is 6,000 years old? Dinosaurs are a leftist conspiracy theory from ‘evil-doers’ who don’t read their bible???

I didn't notice you leaping to shout about hate speech when PP were referring to a grieving woman as a 'MAGA barbie', as making a performance, or as spouting speeches written by MAGA grifters. It's only the male woman we're not allowed to criticise.

It is not rhetoric to say that transwomen are at least as violent as any other men, there's plenty of evidence on that. 60% of the transwomen in prison are sex offenders. These are facts, not 'extremist rhetoric'.

You trying are to shut down those who disagree with you. The discussion on this threat is not inciting violence, and it is an example of the kind of authoritarianism that is part of how we've got here to say that it is, in order to try to stop people posting things you don't like.

The killer in this case wasn't a transwoman but it seems he is a believer in that ideology, and we should be able to discuss that without being accused of hate speech, violence or endangering anyone. Not being able to disagree or to question is how we get to the point that some people think it's acceptable to kill someone who has a different belief to them.

I think we'd all do well to mind our language tbh. Not our views but how we express them. That's not a mealy mouthed direction to 'be kind' either. Its just common sense. Because use words chosen to offend and they will be what's heard rather than your point.
The OP chose to use a sexist slur and as a result any validity of her point, which was whether it was helpful to use 'battle' rhetoric at this time, was lost in the outrage at the insult.
The same happens when we deliberately discuss the trans issue with words that we know will be poorly recieved. The discussion about the impact of ideology on unstable young men doesn't happen, because we are all caught up in whether someone's words have been hateful or not.

I agree in principle but I think the problem is that some people who are invested in their own beliefs see any dissent at all not as a sincerely held difference of opinion, but as an attack. There is no way to speak to people who can only listen if you buy into their ideology.

This thread isn't really about trans but trans is a plain example of that. Unless you say transwomen are women, you will be shut down. Young people who are questioning their gender are explicitly told in online spaces that anyone not affirming them hates them and should be cut off as they're unsafe to be around - including their parents. So how do you discuss the issue if you don't believe transwomen are women? If people who believe that will only listen if you agree with them, and there's no way to word what you want to say that they don't dismiss as hate speech, how can there be a conversation?

I support a woman's right to choose, Charlie Kirk did not. But to be fair to him, he was willing to talk to people who had a different view to him, he didn't just shout at them that they are wrong, and hateful, and shouldn't be allowed to say what they think. I doubt he'd have ever changed his views, but he didn't try to stop people discussing them with him.

It's coming to something when a highly conservative pro gun American is better able to tolerate disagreement than those who might otherwise be termed progressive.

I agree. It’s one thing I am trying to be fair more mindful of since CK was killed. Respectful debate. It’s not always easy, especially if someone throws insults at you first, and quite often I will read over my post before I post it and remove as much emotional language as I can