Thread 2 Turn your son in knowing he’d get the death penalty

[Idinnaenah]

1st thread is full - this is to continue the convo. My original question is below:

’Kirk’s killer has apparently been turned in by his family - or persuaded to hand himself in.
Trump &’his supporters have been very vocal about getting the death penalty for the shooter.
would YOU hand your child over, knowing that the electric chair would be the likely outcome?

YANBU - I wouldn’t turn him in to die.
YABU - I would he’s a killer and deserves all he gets

Your total lack of empathy for a woman who had just seen her husband murdered seems pretty extreme to me tbh. But I guess people have different standards.

@TheJoyOfWriting I can only be honest and say I have not seen that particular statement. If it as you have presented I would have enjoyed a debate with him. I have already acknowledged that he was a flawed human being and that would appear, on the face of it, to be a simple mis-informed opinion rather than stating Biblical Truth? I don't know, so it's just a suggestion until I have time to look deeper. I would certainly challenge an assertion that Britain is a third-world-hell-hole - although sometimes, dealing with 'authorities' or any form of customer disservice, metaphorically speaking, it may feel like it.

Unfortunately that kind of family get together with guns isn’t that unusual in sorts of the US.

And most decent people hate misogyny, racism and homophobia
Unlike Kirk
As I said, I don't celebrate his death but I won't mourn him

People are often divided on many topics but violence is never the way to go. As for turning in a child yes I would. I obey the law even those with which I don't agree. It is the only way we can operate in a civilised society.

Almost (until you drew my attention to the 'Britain is a 'hell-hole'' one) all of them. Too many to go through one by one. Whilst I 100% get that his Christian Biblical stance would attract hatred - hate the words he speaks, not the man because the man was willing to be challenged and engage in dialogue. I guess though he would have expected nothing less, as his Lord and Saviour was crucified for the same.

His concerns came from a deep love for humanity. He was willing to, and invited people to discuss with him. He has been de-humanised by the most vocal voices of hatred towards him. And yet I'm certain that those who spout brave but hateful words from the safety of their anonymity behind a keyboard, would consider themselves to be part of a 'be kind' movement? He practised what he preached - do the haters?

The hatred and vilification now being aimed at his grieving widow is nothing less than wicked.

People like Pascal Robinson-Foster need to be prepared to answer for their evil words. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

I'm glad we agree Britain is not a third-world hellhole. 👍Perhaps he was misinformed, as you say..

It's a very odd comment considering he went to Oxford to debate. Cafes full of non-native Muslims & burka-wearing women (which he claimed to have seen) are not a common sight there.

If he had been in Bradford, say, it might have been a more accurate statement.

@Thegreatestoftheseislove No, he was not, and to continue that lie fits narrative of hatred which is coming only from those who hate the Truth for which Charlie stood.

HIS entire narrative was of hatred. You seem deluded.

@TheodoreisntBeth Having views you (or I) don't share doesn't make someone a neo nazi or a sociopath.

Yes it does, if they have neo nazi and sociopathic views.
He was against DEI, believed that empathy was a made-up thing (clearly a sociopath since he did not think it existed). He believed that it's OK to have some gun deaths (kids are expendable?) in order to have the right to guns. He was against the Civil Rights act, believed black people should be slaves again and that he would force his 10 year old daughter to have a baby if she was raped and made pregnant. She was just 3 at the time he said it.

"I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made up new age term that does a lot of damage."

Describing his wife as vicious because she isn't sitting in the kitchen crying is misogynistic.

No because she has the exact same racist, nazi beliefs as her husband. I don't care about her or her grief, and I think his daughter had a lucky escape.

And as a decent person he also hated misogyny, racism and homophobia. None of those are the teachings of Jesus who is Charlie and Erika Kirk's Lord and Saviour.

I do not celebrate his violent murder, and as I did not know him, I cannot mourn him - plus he is now with his Lord where there are no more tears, no pain, no suffering. I am sad for his loss to his loving wife, children and the wider Christian family but there are many who will rise up in his footsteps.

OK, @Thegreatestoftheseislove, I understand your position, and I agree that any lying, esp about a dead man, is evil. ILikeDinosaurs needs to fact check her claims... Can I ask your opinions on a few more of Kirk's statements, though?

His claim that Michelle Obama, Kentanji Brown Jackson & Sheila Jackson Lee don't have the 'brain power' to achieve what they have career-wise, and only got where they have bc they were favoured due to their skin colour.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/fact-check-charlie-kirk-once-170000805.html

Women on the contraception pill are automatically 'crazy and bitter'. (I know pill can cause issues, but it's wrong to make blanket statements.)

And women over 30 are automatically past prime attractiveness.

https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/charlie-kirk-blames-birth-control-for-creating-very-angry-and-bitter-young-ladies-while-weighing-in-on-womens-prime/

And here's the source for the hellhole quote. These are all things ge said on his show. I think he had a much ruder, shock-jock style for that than the polite Kirk you probs saw in debate videos.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/11/hellhole-uk-stolen-elections-south-korea-charlie-kirk-took-message-abroad

@ILikeDinosaurs HIS entire narrative was of hatred. You seem deluded.

No it was not. You interpret what is in your own heart. No, no delusion here. It is a shame you do not have eyes to see nor ears to hear. The pearls are lost on you. That is nothing new and you are not alone.

And you interpret what is in yours. You clearly agree with his disgusting views of racism and belief that it's OK for some to die? Is that Christian? Those are his words. Your views do not suit your holier than thou attitude. If you can't see the actual truth, that is on your karma.

@TheJoyOfWriting

I've answered a couple of those on another thread. Time and other demands mean I am unable just now to get back to you in a thoughtful and informed way on the remaining points. I will shortly be settling down with some chocolate ready to watch Educating Yorkshire. It may be tomorrow before I am able to give your post my full attention.

If my DC killed someone I would not turn them in

You are entitled to your opinion. I will make no further attempt to dissuade you. Unlike Charlie I do not have the time nor inclination to debate with haters. He was not racist. Everyone dies. I do not believe in karma but if it helps you to invoke it, then go for it. The only thing that is disgusting is the hatred being thrown his way and towards his grieving widow.

I'm going to leave you to it. He absolutely was racist, as are all of Maga, it is in the very foundation of their beliefs. If you don't see it you are either very naive or you share their views.

If you are going to call this man and his family out at least get his "spiel" correct.

You may want to be careful , you are libelling his wife with those statements (and you'd be libelling him except legally you can't libel the dead). If you can't provide evidence of the Kirks being nazi, sociopathic and racist, or you may want to retract those legally-actionable statements.

He did not preach hatred. He spoke of welcoming gay people, for instance, with open arms.

He was against DEI - well in it's current warped form, where a middle class white man wearing a skirt has become more important than a Muslim woman needing to change in a single sex changing room, so do I. That's not even slightly a neo nazi belief.

He believed empathy wasn't possible as you can't feel some else's feelings, you can only have sympathy for them - I don't agree but again, not sociopathic or Nazi.

He didn't say gun deaths were ok, he said he understood that allowing the public access to guns would mean more gun deaths than if it was banned, but he thought that was the better option than the alternative- again I don't agree, but Americans have a very different relationship to guns than we do. He compared it to banning cars, if we banned cars no kids would be killed by being hit by a car but we (as a society) decide we'd rather have cars and so some kids will be hit by them. He didn't say kids getting shot or hit by cars was ok.

Please share where he said black people should be slaves. I haven't seen anything like that.

He said his opposition to abortion was so strong he'd rather his daughter have to have a baby by rape than an abortion. Again, I disagree with him, but he's far from alone in the US to hold those views - are millions of Americans Nazis? He was less of a hypocrite than those politicians who vote to ban abortion in their states, even for raped 10 year olds, while quietly shipping their own unwantedly-pregnant relatives to states where it's still legal.

I don't care about her or her grief, and I think his daughter had a lucky escape. Is a far more sociopathic thing to say than anything I've seen of Charlie Kirks. Disagree with his views, I do too, but to say that about a grieving woman and a small child who will not know her father says who you are.

@TheodoreisntBeth
OK fair enough about his wife. I'm judging her according to how I see him, and I don't know enough about her yet. I'm allowing the toxicity of the current climate get to me.
But.. opinions are now legally actionable? Based on everything I've seen and heard about Maga and Trump and everyone who supports him, and what has been happening in the US lately, these are just my opinions.
Is fascism creeping into the UK now, as in we aren't allowed an opinion that differs from whatever the 'prescribed' opinion is supposed to be?

Great post. Agree with everything you’ve said here.

You didn't give an opinion though, you said he said specific things which he didn't actually say. You also stated that he was sociopathic and a neo nazi and stated that his wife has racist nazi beliefs. That's libellous.

And the irony of saying "Is fascism creeping into the UK now, as in we aren't allowed an opinion that differs from whatever the 'prescribed' opinion is supposed to be?" speaks for itself.

Kirk had opinions which are in the minority in the UK, and you've said that because of his opinions his murder has given his daughter 'a lucky escape'. That you based that assessment on what you know of "everyone who supports Trump" - you realise millions of people voted for Trump, right? Hundreds of thousands of them black and Hispanic people? Are they all fascists? The blanket intolerance of everyone who comes to a different conclusion than you, while calling other people fascists, is quite the look.

Hi again @TheJoyOfWriting Looking at Charlie Kirk’s website and his podcasts, I have been unable to find those particular talks, The links you gave are simply a ‘he said this …’ sound bite, but without hearing the context, nuance, and fuller picture I cannot comment on the true intent and meaning. I need to see/hear within full context. The couple of things I can see what he’s saying are 1. the Pill - this makes me a little batshit and I know it can adversely affect many women’s equilibrium. 2. Women over 30 are, biologically speaking, not in their prime for continuation of the species. Not so long ago a woman was regarded as a geriatric mother to be pregnant at 28.

Yes, I agree, a fair and balanced critique. Thank you @TheodoreisntBeth . Loving the username btw 😁

Most people of religion don’t believe in the nonsense and hate he spouted.
Like many people like him they use religion merely as an excuse to further their own deep seated hate

Most Americans do support rape exceptions for abortion, including many religious ones, so yes, his view is fairly extreme even in cultural context.

Although sadly support for rape exceptions is falling w increased polarisation.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-04-08/red-states-eliminate-rape-exceptions-from-abortion-bans

I don't care if millions of Americans believe that : it is a vile view. Millions of people all over the world believe vile things, sadly. The way of humanity often...But it doesn't make them any less vile.

I hate Godwin's Law, I don't believe in fallacious comparisons. Tho it's true that Hitler was extremely anti abortion.

To quote the more temperate words of Anatole France : 'If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.'