Differences (rep Ireland) Irish V UK

[Sillysandy]

I am Irish living in Ireland. My DH is British, he is an immigrant who grew up in London but had lived for 20 years in Ireland when I met him.

I discovered mumsnet about 8 years ago when I took on a sort of stepmum role and was flabbergasted at some of the stories, attitudes and opinions.

I still found the site extremely helpful, often giving me clarity on situations which would cause me a lot of angst.

However when I talk to friends and family members living in the UK I realise that a lot is to do with cultural differences.

It's amazing given how close geographically we are.

Attitudes to money, marriage, divorce, wedding gifts, abortion, house purchases, communication with friends are so far from anything I've seen in my circles.

To give my pov; (these are all generalisations) we get married later, we stay married, we don't consider abortion unless it's very particular circumstances, we are indirect about money "I'll get this one, you can get the next one (but it is LAW you only accept if you are buying back)" and sending bank details for a small amount would be horrifyingly rude, you only attend a wedding with a card containing at least 100 euro pp, you usually get married in your mid thirties, your kids are mainly all with the one father, we hide behind humour until we know a person very well, we don't report benefit fraud, we laugh a lot more... That's just off the top of my head.

The other thing is that most Irish people know all about English Irish historical tensions but many English people are utterly oblivious.

YABU You're talking out of your ass
YANBU The differences are enormous

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this. In my line of work now I do a weekly call with my UK based team and I always notice subtle differences in attitude.

I reckon there are a load of fifty euro notes that are never spent. They circulate round weddings. There are also bottles of champagne that are regifted when people get engaged.

Ok - I’m slightly invested in this as I’ve just got a save the date from an Irish colleague who’s since moved home. Is there a non-money option I can give that won’t cause offence/make me out to be the tight english person? Not really sure we can stretch to 200 euros (think somebody said the etiquette was per person?) - my normal wedding gift is a bottle of champagne but concerned that’s not going to cut it! Or is this very much a certain crowd thing? My colleague is absolutely lovely and I’m sure I won’t be the only English person invited so hopefully we can just commit a faux pas en mass…

The vast majority do give cash now, or sometimes vouchers. There has been a change over the years. I went to several weddings about 20-25 years ago where they had gift lists and cash gifts weren’t as ubiquitous as they are now, but that seems to have changed.

But you don’t have to give cash of course. Another gift, that you could buy at a sale price maybe, would be okay if you prefer.
A bottle of champagne would be unusual on its own I think, but I’m sure your friend just wants you there irrespective of gifts.

When people are saying these gifts are standard, they are, it’s the done thing. That doesn’t mean couples getting married are greedy or have no understanding of the financial pressures people face.

Don’t worry too much about it. She knows your English and she’s lived there. I’d go with something more thoughtful or lasting though , if you’re not giving the traditional thing- like a print of the town she used to live in, or something from that place that nods to your shared memories or even nice glasses to go with the champagne.

Yes, I agree with this. I married a Brit and the UK sides gifts were much smaller monetary amounts compared to the Irish (but some of those were crazy and I was embarrassed) but I was well aware the UK side also had to pay for flights and accomodation etc. Something meaningful would be lovely!

I agree it is expensive to travel to a wedding ... it is really lovely to see family who make the effort to attend and stay in hotels etc.
Eddie Hobbes didn't mention that...I wonder if that is on you tube. He was going to save us from ourselves in ripoff ireland...

Weddings in the UK aren't exactly cheap though, most people I know spent tens of thousands of pounds. There just isn't the same expectation for guests to cover their plates.

Yeah it's still not weird as the expectation is clear for everyone. You build it into your budget or you don't go. It really doesn't make a huge amount of difference to the overall costs, attending weddings is very expensive anyway.

We could argue that it's weird you don't give a significant gift and that would be similarly nonsensical.

I guess ‘build it into your budget or don’t go’ just seems so transactional. Surely you invite people to your wedding because you want to see them there? Not because you’re trying to offset the cost?

Thanks to the previous posters for the advice! I have a friend who does gorgeous watercolour cards personalised with sentimental locations, hobbies etc so was going to get one of those done. Hopefully that with a bottle of fizz won’t blot my copybook too much!

I still would go with a card and cash. Give sterling and put in my 50stg for both of you. YOu will be doing extra travelling and all that but IF the couple are doing list counts and trust me it happens do not be fooled my mother is still spitting fire about the fact one of my friends didnt even give a card for her wedding some years back so yes lists are taken by SOME people but the stg will reinforce its from english family and friends and they will understand the extra you had to fork out. I havent seen a gift table at a wedding in years to be honest just a wedding postbox in the room to post your card into.

I think it's fine as you're not Irish to give a smaller amounts; 50 stg is a good suggestion. I don't know why you'd waste money on presents they probably won't want that'll take up space.

I also never understand why people on this site get so affronted when this topic comes up. It's just an Irish tradition. Nobody is forcing you to partake.

When I went to my cousin's wedding in Cyprus we were told on the invitation information page that the bride and groom put on special clothes and dance and we all pin lines of notes to make a money suit. We all had long lines of notes ready. It wasn't our way but we didn't mind.

I’ll probably go down 50 quid in a card then - less faff than taking a bottle. I just can’t afford anymore unfortunately.

I know you say nobody is forcing you but as a chronic people pleaser (that I’m working on!) I’d hate to be bitched about. Plus I’m already a bit anxious about taking DS as it’ll be the first time flying - I don’t want to go through all the stress only to offend the couple! I want to be culturally respectful but 200 euros (myself plus husband, presume baby isn’t included in the calculation?!) is a bit beyond us financially right now.

No you have to think of it like the rounds in the bar: you can opt in or out -

If you're Irish and probably going to have an Irish wedding you pay the piper as presumably you will get paid on your wedding.

I'd you're not Irish you don't need to cough up as nobody is coughing up for yours.

Also destination weddings don't carry the same expectation so it's the same as guests that travel to you.

You're grand!

I thought you mentioned earlier in the thread (too long to search back for it) that if €100 pp was not forthcoming, the ‘tight English’ relatives would be gossiped about?

I really hate to say this…but are you certain baby is invited? It’s just that colleagues’ children usually aren’t, though it’s probably different as you have to travel of course.

Nobody will. Honestly I would never utter a word. How on earth would English people be expected to know this. I have lived in a few countries and work in a multicultural industry so I got all sorts for my wedding and I thought nothing of it. You can hardly be expected to know this intricate part of Irish culture just because you know an Irish person,

I do think thoughtful trumps cash when the cash is not standard, but that is my opinion .

I think people are mainly talking about their own relatives. The day after I got married I got a text from one of my relatives demanding to know what her sister had given us. She’s known to be very tight while being extremely wealthy. People like to police that type of behaviour here for some reason

I’m certain that your friend will be grateful that you are travelling with a baby for her celebration.

My mum was Irish (Sligo) but we grew up in the uk with an English father. Interestingly a lot of what you talk about has been tension between me and my English in laws as I was very much brought up in the way you describe (and thought it normal). Particularly the fighting to buy the drinks and gift giving and a general hatred of the establishment (despite being pretty well off and educated). My dad obvs bought into it too!! I loved going home (wasn’t my home but that was what it was called 🤪as I would come back to the uk with a wallet full of money. Every distant relative would be pressing 20’s into my hand (and that was a lot of money when you were 9 in the 80’s! )It’s a very different culture - despite similarity on the surface. I think English people tend to be more insular and less willing to debate.

My family always have babies at weddings. Especially welcome if the parents are coming a long way or a baby is tiny. And sometimes parents have to vanish early or take it in turns to be around...that's family life!
A card and banknote would be easier than juggling a baby and a bottle of duty free champagne!

@Aethelredtheunsteady don't worry about it. They will be really pleased that you have made the effort to come to the wedding!

A significant cultural difference is the presence of babies and small children at funerals. I think only being on Mn made me aware of quite the extent to which it's not seen as entirely ordinary to take babies or children of any age to any part of a funeral, without thinking that you're scarring them for life by seeing a dead body or adults crying, that any wails or audible requests for a packet of crisps or the loo or whether Granny is going to get out of the coffin are going to wreck the solemnity of the occasion. I've given a eulogy with a cranky baby in my arms without anyone thinking it was in any way odd.

Baby definitely invited! She had her daughter at around the same time and she’s messaged saying how cute it will be for them to meet each other at the wedding.

Loads of differences!

I agree with the money thing - we have completely different attitudes - you’d be mortified for being known as cheap in Ireland while in the UK most people just give what they want to give. When I first moved to the UK a colleague told me he loved the Irish that everywhere he went people bought him drinks - he didn’t buy anyone a drink back lol. A lot less people tip in the UK too - I find it’s about 50:50 among people I know but the majority of Irish people I know tip (though a few outliers). A relative who lives in Brussels was telling me about her large offices tradition of people from that country putting on a spread in the afternoon of their national days. Irish people loaded on the whiskey, Guinness, stew, sausages etc… the Spanish served Paela and Sangria, the french had wines, meats and cheeses and the English served tea and scones lol. Think the Dutch got similar slagging. I found gifting in workplaces similarly different - in Ireland usually people would throw in an agreed amount for a birthday of leaving due (always a minimum of a fiver) but in the UK I worked with people who would put in a quid or less.

The chats are completely different too - more similar in the North of England but in the South people sometimes look at you like you have ten heads when you strike up a conversation with a stranger. We also share a lot more about ourselves to people we just met.

Dropping into someone’s house. You don’t just knock on someone’s door cause you were in the neighbourhood in England - it must be prearranged, I find people only invite you over if you’ve known them years most meet ups are in pubs and cafes.

Funerals - I find the waiting for funerals in the UK hard, it is hard to have closure with such a long gap. I would prefer if Irish funerals had a tiny bit more of a gap (say 4/5 days) as it’s hard to get everything together in such a short time. I find the brevity of the service in the UK and the small numbers attending hard to get used to.

Time - we’re definitely a little more relaxed in Ireland, no one gets too upset is someone is 5minutes late. We also don’t tend to give end times for informal events as much. When I moved to the UK for Uni I went to a party that said it was on from 8pm until midnight - at 11.55pm I was asked if I had already booked my taxi or if I needed one booked for me - completely alien! I have learned that things actually end when they say they end. Also an event I attend regularly that is held in a local pub when it ends at 8pm everyone gets up and leaves no hanging on for another pint!

Politics - people don’t talk about politics as much in England! With some people they almost see it as rude. People protest but I know a handful of people who’ve been to a protest here but pretty much everyone back home has been to one or two.

Cursing! I was once telling a story on a bus in Oxford and said “f*cking” and loads of people turned round and glared at me. I had a colleague who had a very colourful youth with drugs and partying recount how she had to tell people off for cursing at a bus stop where kids could hear.

Education - a huge amount of people finish school at 16, it’s seen that you have completed your secondary schooling if you leave then. In Ireland 18 is seen as the end of school though the majority go on to third level in some form.

Divorce is common enough in Ireland though we’re probably a bit slower to remarry. My parents are legally separated almost 30 years.

Abortion happens in Ireland too, at a lower rate and it’s probably more taboo but I know a few people who have had them.

Toddler snacks - might be just the people I mixed with but in England at playdates at the playground people produced baby crisps, baby bars, chocolate buttons etc… in Ireland I found people had cream crackers with peanut butter and bananas in their lunch boxes. Pre bought baby snacks are pricier in Ireland!

Class - we do have a class system but it’s not in the same level as the English. As someone pointed out in Ireland we have people with notions. There are no lords or ladies or people with royal blood. Our millionaires usually have poor relatives (speaking as a poor relative of some wealthy folk). Our people with notions would be considered common as muck by the English people with notions! There is much less class mobility in England too - over half my friends in Uni in Ireland got grants because they were on a low wage, in England most people on my course were from middle class backgrounds.

That’s lovely and so sorry to mention it. I just know someone who was raging that her friend had simply assumed that the toddler was invited to the wedding too 😅
Nothing was said and they’re still good friends but it caused the bride and groom stress at the time as they hadn’t invited some cousins’ young kids and were then worried they’d be miffed…

I've just had a look at some stats. 0.7 divorce per 1000 compared to 1.7 for the UK. Average age on marriage for women is 35 compared to 33 in UK

Seems pretty similar tbh. Perhaps its just your circle?

Yes! My first English funeral since I had my kid and I got loads of weird glances - I thought all her English cousins would be there and she could play with the other kids. I had to leave after 5 minutes as she was making a racket. She’s been to a few in Ireland with no issue.

I got told off by a priest at a baptism for taking her out of the church for climbing chairs, I was dragging her to the doors and he stopped the sermon to say that the church belongs to children too and they should be allowed to express themselves whatever way they see fit - really mortifying!