Children having their own seat on a packed train.

[user1493559472]

I am on a packed train. A child who is about 3 years old is sat in their own seat and not on the parents lap, would you ask to sit down and the child sits on parents lap? People were standing.
Thank you

Just tried booking with LNER. The only restrictions I have come across is it says under fives are free but are not guaranteed a seat. In other words, if a seat is free they may use it. Those are the terms. Anything written elsewhere is irrelevant as you cannot add terms after the conclusion of the contract.

Well except the fact that multiple people on this thread have said they buy tickets for their under 5s.

I am 63 and get offered a seat a lot on my commute.

As would I as I would want the guarantee of a seat on a long journey. But that is irrelevant to the fact that there are no terms requiring you to give up a child’s seat if the seat were free when they got on (and not reserved at a later point in the journey).

I also just checked for that journey - it would be cheaper to buy the child a ticket with a family and friends railcard than to just buy an adult ticket. So even more reason to do so.

A family and friends railcard gives a third off the adult ticket and 60% of the child’s ticket meaning for an adult travelling with a single child under five it is nearly always cheaper to buy the child a ticket than not

I actually do tend to pay for a seat and reserve it for my under 5s as is not much more when booking with a family railcard, particularly if it means we have a 4 seater table seat for just our family. So it’s not always the case parents haven’t paid for their child’s seat, even if they don’t have to

Yes.

Of course they are able to stand.

But that's not really the point.

I don't know if you've noticed, but it's generally preferable to sit on a moving train, partly because it is more comfortable, especially over long distances, and partly because the movement of the train can make it more awkward to stand than it would be on solid ground.

(I believe the train companies are aware of this and that's why they have, for quite a long time now, put seats on trains.)

As a result, seats on trains can be quite a desired commodity. Even though, as you quite correctly have observed, grown humans are perfectly able to stand (unless they have a disability), most grown adults choose to sit down on the train when they can.

In those circumstances, and call me a snowflake if you like, I will try and do my best to make the journey more comfortable for my fellow grown humans. I will, for example, move my bag or coat off a seat so they can sit (even though they are, actually, perfectly able to stand).

And I will, if I have a 3 year old child with me, get them to sit on my lap. Even, yes, if they have paid for a ticket. Even though they are entitled to have a seat of their own. Yes, I will go out of my way to make someone else's day a little bit more comfortable even if it might make my own day a little bit less comfortable because that seems to me to be the sort of little act of kindness that makes the world a happier place.

But you do you.

If it was me and I was feeling frustrated by the lack of seating and saw the child, I might think what you’re thinking of a few seconds. I’d give my head a wobble and appreciate the little toddler is more than entitled to sit down, more so than me. The elderly, infirm and little ones should take priority over me who is able to stand and balance.

This pisses me off too.

My teen dd has a medical condition, for a very long time she could barely walk or do basic things like sit at a table without an episode. Looking at her now you would not know, but we know that when she’s tired, run down, stressed she’s triggered and anything can happen. Her school is a very proud strict school that expects all pupils to be polite show manners in public including helping people on public transport and give up seats. We teach our children manners too but I have drilled it into her to put her own safety first, especially when she’s travelling on public transport alone, her school have backed me in this with her and told her she shouldn’t be giving up seats if she feels like she’s struggling. It took her a long time to feel confident to travel alone. To any onlooker she’s a fit healthy teenager not giving up her seat, to us she’s a sick child that we have spent 2 years making sure she’s fit and well to be able to live a normal life.

Just today we got a call from her, she’d made it half way to the train station after school when she felt like she was going to have an episode, she actually sat outside a shop and called us, my DH was there in 15 mins and had to help her to the car. That’s the first time in months and it could be months before it happens again or it could be tomorrow, we don’t know, so if people think she’s a selfish entitled teen that’s their ignorant problem.

Yeah. I would politely, privately, and without the expectation of any particular answer. I would ask. If it couldn't be polite or private, I wouldn't ask; I hate to draw attention to myself. If they said no, I would accept that, and I wouldn't ask why.

It is the point.
HTH

I actually think a 3 year old is entitled to have a comfortable seat

You would go out of the way to make your child potentially less comfortable to make a stranger more comfortable? Do you not see your child as a person?

I am troubled that asking a small child to share a seat makes you uncomfortable.

Do you not see strangers as people?

You seriously think most people put strangers before their own family? This thread is getting more and more absurd.

I actually think everyone is entitled to have a comfortable seat.

But that gets us nowhere.

Because there aren't enough seats for everyone to have a comfortable seat.

So what's the best compromise to bring about the most comfort as a whole?

You seriously think most people act with total disregard for other people?

Even if most people do, do you think they should?

I was on the tram in Edinburgh last year, with a relative who had just had pins in her ankle due to a fall. Tram was busy and the ticket inspector was commanding certain adult individuals to get up out of seats to give to those "less able". My relative said she couldn't stand due to recent surgery, and to ask the parents with toddlers to put them in their laps instead (they are free). Inspector said they couldn't do that.

That makes no sense.

Letting the three year old have a comfortable seat. An overtired upset three year old can certainly make life unpleasant for a whole carriage.

Being a nice person, makes no sense? Says it all really

It will depend. On a short journey probably popping a toddler on your knee for 15 mins is fine for you, the toddler and whoever takes their seat

On a long journey you are looking at 1 person being uncomfortable standing vs 2 people (parent and toddler) being uncomfortable sitting, the person who takes the toddlers seat potentially being uncomfortable sitting next to them and quite possibly the whole carriage being less comfortable if the toddler gets upset about being confined (as some very much do) and gets distressed.

On the whole with long journeys it seems to me that even the compromise to make the most people comfortable overall is to leave the toddler in their seat 🤷🏼‍♀️

You're now adding caveats to the premise

A well-behaved, quiet three year old doesn't.

I don't know about you but my kids when they were 3 were perfectly comfortable sitting on people's knees, you're not making them sit on the dirty floor. You're making the stranger comfortable while your 3yo is still perfectly comfortable

Non-reservable services - 'first come, first served', those who fit the criteria of priority seating have priority in the priority seats, of course.
Reservable services - reserved seats for those who've reserved them, then as above.
No able bodied adult is more deserving of a seat than a child already in that seat.