Children having their own seat on a packed train.

[user1493559472]

I am on a packed train. A child who is about 3 years old is sat in their own seat and not on the parents lap, would you ask to sit down and the child sits on parents lap? People were standing.
Thank you

There are many many trains that aren’t in London. And even in London there are many, many elderly people who don’t live there and have to pay just like everyone else.

And there are lots of people who pay for their children’s tickets also who don’t live in London. But somehow the elderly person who has paid isn’t expected to give up their seat but the parent who has paid for the child has to give it up?

How many parents of children under five who don’t have to pay actually volunteer to? I’ll tell you - virtually none. I certainly didn’t and, frankly I don’t believe anyone who says they did.

Depends on length of journey and seat layout too. I’d struggle to fit a child on my lap whilst next to another person. With bags etc and then try to reach toys, drinks, snacks etc to keep them entertained. For everyone’s sanity it’s better the child has space.

In order to get a seat reservation on a train you have to buy a ticket

My elderly mother has a free freedom pass. When the tube is busy I make her sit on my lap.

It can be cheaper to buy children’s tickets than not with a railcard. And you then get seat reservations. I wouldn’t dream of taking a multi-hour trip with young children without seat reservations

When I’ve taken my young children on busy tube trains in London, someone pretty much always offers them their seat. And I appreciate it as it moves them away from the door so they can’t suddenly decide to get off at the wrong stop.

Of course not. Children have a right to sit down too

You have introduced the qualification "long journeys". Beats me why people do that.

Are you saying there is a difference rule as to length of journey?

I think you pay for the transport rather than the seat - different scenario if you have paid for a specific seat but I dont think the OP had done that?

I think you pay for the transport rather than the seat - different scenario if you have paid for a specific seat but I dont think the OP had done that?

Well it was on the overground anyway so no you can't reserve a seat. Also what a massive drip feed!
I would really struggle to keep my large 3 year old on my lap safely on one of those overground seats with it suddenly stop starting etc.

Perhaps we should all be asking why rail services aren't sufficient for more people to sit anyway, regardless of age?

So to take that into account, what if a child was travelling with a foster parent or adoptive parent where it would be completely inappropriate and may feel very unsafe for that child to sit on the adults lap? Obviously in that scenario the person demanding the child's seat is in no way entitled to that child's history or background. So the parent or carer would quite simply have to say no. People on this thread seem to be forgetting that there will always be circumstances where it won't be appropriate for a child to sit on a parent or carers lap and people do not need to justify that to a stranger just because they feel entitled to a seat (which they wouldn't be entitled to even if the train was full of only adults and no children were even on it).

As I mentioned earlier this depends where in the UK you are then because where I live, over 65s travel completely free. There are also specially designated seats which state that if someone older, disabled or pregnant needs a seat and you are in that seat you must give it up unless you fall into one of those categories yourself.

"Like lots of older people I don’t want to stay at home 24/7, but without knowing I can sit on a journey, I’m less likely to venture far." I completely understand and empathise with this, but you could also apply this to parents, particularly mothers who may be more isolated while on maternity leave or out of work due to caring responsibilities if they know they won't be able to safely accommodate their children on a journey, especially if they are travelling with more than one. Especially if they are a mother with mobility issues. Or travelling with a child who has SEN or experience of trauma etc.

"And you think a three year old should give up a seat for you instead of a healthy adult?"

I also agree with this, any able bodied adult in this secario should know to volunteer to stand given they will also know how to do so safely on a moving train and while others are moving around them.

I’d say the entitled brats here are those who expect a child to move so that they can sit.

I wonder how they were brought up?

For me it isn’t about money. My children were taught to stand up for the elderly of both sexes and people with disabilities or otherwise struggling. Also pregnant women or those with small children and babies. It’s just common decency. I know for sure that they do it automatically as young adults, and see the point of it. It’s no big deal and doesn’t need over dissecting.

I would have moved my 3 year old onto my lap, if I was able to in cramped conditions with bags etc. But I wouldn't be furious about someone else not doing so as they could have good reasons for not doing so. I had major abdominal surgery last year and no way could I have had my heavy toddler on my lap for a train journey, not even months afterwards.

"Every t&c for every transport company clearly says if your child can’t sit on your lap you need to pay for their ticket."

Actually this seems to be specific to the rail company. Never did i think I would care this much, but I have trawled our local rail providers website, passenger charter and policies and I have found absolutely nothing to this effect relating to young children. However you also cannot book specific seats on trains here, they are very much first come first served.

I think this is fair to do once they reach a certain age and I would do the same with my ds when he is older, but 3 is in my opinion too little.

I agree 3 is too little.

I wouldn’t just to avoid the unpleasantness that may ensue, but when mine were that little I would take them on my lap so an adult could sit down. I think parents can manage a slight discomfort - a ‘wriggly child’ is not really that big a deal. But hardly anyone seems to do that anymore unfortunately.

Why on earth wouldn’t you believe them & why on earth would you expect people wouldn’t do it if it allowed them to travel more comfortably? Child tickets are not that expensive anyway and with a family railcard it was sometimes actually cheaper to buy 2 tickets than one standard adult one. I mean I wouldn’t have got them a ticket for a short ride on a bus or the local train that’s maybe 20-30 mins max but travelling further I absolutely always did. I’m amazed anyone wouldn’t get small kids a ticket and reserve seats for a 1 hour plus journey (particularly if they use trains regularly so railcard cost is minimal per journey). If you look in future see how many families sitting with small kids are in reserved seats? That would give you a decent idea how many are paying for tickets. I know no one among my friends or school mum group that uses trains for holidays, visiting family etc that didn’t get a friends & family railcard as soon as their kid was big enough to sit on a seat. Some even got one while they were babies and had them on the seat in their car seats 🤷🏼‍♀️