Children having their own seat on a packed train.

[user1493559472]

I am on a packed train. A child who is about 3 years old is sat in their own seat and not on the parents lap, would you ask to sit down and the child sits on parents lap? People were standing.
Thank you

To be fair though, it also sounds like children are expected to hold a placard detailing any reasons why they may not be able to stand and/or sit on laps too.

Sometimes people saying no, my child can't give up their seat or sit on my lap have a good reason too.

Am I the only one who finds it sad that most of this discussion is about entitlement, rather than how a group of people can find a solution that maximises the benefit and minimises the discomfort for as many of them as possible?

They’d have probably sat on someone else’s lap. I’ve had that help back in the seventies. Older women who’d had children would offer to help. And of course we folded our buggies, we wouldn’t have got on the bus otherwise.

I’ve certainly done my stint of standing or going upstairs on buses. We nearly all did. Where has the courtesy and consideration gone? What’s changed? I also do not believe every younger person I see in the accessible/priority seats has a mobility issue. Not all disabilities mean someone can’t walk or stand. When someone who is obviously frail has to stand and a young person carrying football kit is sitting, it makes me wonder how they’ve been brought up. My middle aged DC wouldn’t behave like that.

I’m a long way past retirement age, downhill from 75, waiting for a knee replacement, and standing is difficult. I’m very obviously old and I have a disabled rail pass. If I visit family by train, it isn't always possible to book a seat. Last time I had to ask a young man, in a very crowded train, to please move his bag so I could sit. He did it grudgingly. I was just amazed (and grateful) that no one else had asked for the seat. I’m getting more reluctant to risk the journey now, because standing for an hour on a moving train would be tough.

No one would get anywhere. We are a vastly overpopulated nation with infrastructure that has a maximum capacity. most lines are running at peak capacity . They tried to increase a bit of capacity with Hs2 and that failed and realistically we can’t just go around building more train tracks.

so either only the amount of seats available can travel at great cost to the economy or we accept we get treated like cattle?

the alternative is gradual population reduction to an amount which fits our infrastructure but people bleat on about pensions when that is suggested so I’m baffled what is the solution!

Sitting on the floor is problematic when the train is absolutely packed and people trying to get on are screaming "move down" (as from the outside they can't see there are children sat in the aisle!!

I think a lot of people who automatically say this are primarily thinking of short journeys. I regularly went away with my kids, a friend and her kids when they were all pretty small. When we had toddlers plus babies we’d book a table for 4, when it was 4 pre schoolers we used to book a table of 4 plus 2 seats. We got tickets for everyone specifically to be able to book seats. Generally we were travelling for 2-3 hours. Booking seats meant it was very easy to entertain the kids with a bit of colouring, a small jigsaw, Lego etc, to sort them out snacks and generally to ensure they were settled and quiet and not being a hassle to anyone. Squishing everyone into 4 seats around the table would have just about been possible but it would have been uncomfortable and less easy to keep them
all quiet and occupied. I booked so we had a set up that would work well for our journey.
Would you expect slim adults to nudge up and sit in with 3 people in a row for 2 in discomfort to make room for an extra person to sit? If not then why do you think parents & their children are ill mannered not to do it?

Pay for the 2nd child then

”Demanded” no, because lack of manners always rubs me up the wrong way. If they asked for my seat, I’d get up but I was raised that way. Someone asked my mum to get out of a priority seat so that they could sit down and as my mum was getting up, the person started muttering about how the seats were meant for the elderly. My mum was knocking on eighty,lol, she just didn’t look it… or feel it thankfully. I can’t believe she got up, bless her.

No, I wouldn’t ask for an explanation, I’d just get up. Why they need a seat is none of my business. It’s enough that a stranger has asked for my help and I am able to give it. I do also believe, though, that what goes around comes around and many a time I’ve been helped by strangers in so many ways… In so many different countries. What you give out comes back to you and I prefer to live in a world where I treat people how I’d like to be treated. If I’m not well enough to stand up, that’s a different matter but if it cost me nothing to be kind, then why not be?

Would you say that to an elderly person with a free pass if they wanted a seat?

In your scenario, I would have just said to my child, “Oh, that was a nice thing to do”, and then they can go off feeling like they did a nice thing. It feels good to do nice things. Now he probably feels like a mug, and will be wary of anyone else trying to make a mug out of him, rather than looking for more opportunities to do a nice thing.

YABU and if you asked me I would say no.

'A person's a person, no matter how small'

Yes. Absolutely. Fair point. I can’t argue with that.

Because non booked seats on a train are first come served. If you're 'inconvenienced' by others getting on the train before you, maybe you should reconsider your transport options.

…except that the tide has changed and, as seen here, the only reason that most people need for their child not to stand is that they were there first. Nomothetic reason needed.

Young children may not be able to reach something to hold onto. They may get people’s bags in their faces and can get carried along when people exit the train.
I am at an age where when people often offer me a seat. I would stand for a child. I can abide the ‘in my day…. ‘. It is not then and things are different. Everywhere is more crowded. We rightly care more about young children. If you need a seat get a badge.

National Rail says:

Children under 5
Children under 5 years of age travel for free on most journeys but check with your train company to make sure. Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger.

If you haven’t paid for a ticket for your child a fare paying adult is entitled to the seat.

When my kids were toddlers, for long train journeys, i would buy them a ticket anyway so they had a seat as found it easier than doing a journey with one of them on my knee. If my child has a paid and reserved seat I wouldn't expect them to move.

Crikey yes! When I was growing up it was also standard for kids to stand while adults sat down.

As for the dogs on seat, what gets me is the answer ' animals are better than humans!

Lots of people on here think you should though out of deference to an able bodied adult! its the principle of it.

It’s a long thread but just to add my 10p - it really depends on how long the journey is. I recently got my 7 year old to sit on my lap on a busy commuter train but it was only a 30 minute journey and of course we hadn’t specifically booked seats. If it was a longer journey that I’d booked seats for then no I wouldn’t get my DC’s to sit on my lap. The only exception is if I saw someone standing who was clearly very elderly / pregnant / struggling.

My son has recently turned 2 and its not free for any airline we've travelled with. Its usually a flat fee or a % of the adults ticket.
Some airlines are probably free but just thought I'd point out not all are

I'm not sure there is a connection between having free tickets and being expected to sit on laps though... Over 60s don't pay for buses / tubes in London, should they be sitting on laps too?
Almost certain that that isn't what the train manager would have done....

@MrsSkylerWhite ^

You can’t look at a kid on a plane (or train for that matter) and assume they haven’t paid. For example, we’ve always paid for plane tickets for our under 2s as we like the space and it’s claustrophobic enough even without a kid on your lap.

that's the rules though asmany people have stated