To be annoyed that my employer won’t let me go part time?

[Topoftheroof]

I currently work full time 5 days a week. I made a flexible working request to go part time to 2 days a week because of personal circumstances (family circumstances) but it was declined. I’m annoyed though because there are other people (2 other people) working in the company only 2 days a week so it’s not unheard of. But they won’t consider it because I’m a head of department (not in a school and nothing to do with education or academics) and they also won’t give me another role in the company either which can be 2 days a week. I feel like I could cry with stress, I can’t afford to not work at all but can’t work 5 days a week at the moment either due to circumstances. I explained on my request that part time 2 days a week might not be permanent but they still declined the request. Both my boss and the managing director are always moaning that they “dread the day” I leave because “there’s no one in the business as good as” me so it’s baffling to me that they wouldn’t approve the 2 days a week knowing that I can’t work full time 5 days a week at the moment but then at the same time always say that they don’t want me to leave the company and would do anything to stop me leaving. I haven’t decided if I should appeal it yet or not, I don’t know what to do. I’m just really upset and have been crying about it because I can’t afford not to work at all and can’t do full time at the moment either. I’m also very annoyed with my employer too for rejecting the request. AIBU to be annoyed with my employer about this?

@Topoftheroof can you do 5 x half days so you’re working every day? There may be a concern that having a HoD absent for whole days/2-3 days in a row is an issue.

Or can you agree to the above plus some evening/weekend work to get your hours up to 3.5 days by doing equivalent of a day or so extra out of normal office hours (if you work in an office!)

State if they don’t approve you will have no option but to resign (constructive dismissal).

OP hasn't provided any info whatsoever that would support a constructive dismissal case here.

Calling ACAS is always a good step, but refusing a 2-day per week work schedule for a department head (unless very short term) is incredibly common and will be very difficult to argue represents a lack of reasonable accommodations.

It’s a complex situation. I’m currently a kinship (caring for family members children who have been taken in to care) foster carer (and have been for over 2 years) to 3 children. But in a few months I am taking on a 4th kinship foster child and I have worked out that working full time won’t be workable (I just about manage full time now with 3 foster children and it’s a struggle and work know this) with a 4th but I also can’t afford not to work at all. Work know all of this.

I currently work 3 days a week in a senior role and have since 2021 when I returned from Mat leave. It's been so hard, I get paid for 24 hours per week (8 hour days) in reality I work more like 30 I just don't get paid for the extra.

It's incredibly stressful and I definitely get looked down upon for working part time despite constantly getting extremely positive feedback. I have no idea how you could drop down as far as 2 days. I am going back 4 days in Jan (32 hours) as I'm sick of not getting paid for what I actually work.

Could you suggest 3.5 days as a compromise so you are actually there 4 days. They may be more comfortable with that. Good luck x

It is difficult to know without more facts. The proportion of children in private six forms is much higher than for senior school. My sons attended a well respected school in East Anglia as day pupils. Cost wise this varies, but for the two years this is an investment of £45k for one pupil or thereabouts, so for DC3s parents £22k each.Not sure they could not loan that if they really really wanted or place it on a mortgage, Who then is funding the considerable costs of university?

Yes I submitted a formal flexible working request. They gave the following reasons for declining:

The work cannot be reorganised.
The flexible working request will damage the quality of work and performance.

I feel that I made a very good and detailed case though for how work can be reorganised and how the impact can be mitigated but they still said no.

Could you maybe do 3 or 4 days a week at a push? Or could you have an informal chat to see if they might be able to consider this. I work part time and my Line Manager works 3 days a week and she is absolutely brilliant and streets ahead of several of the full time managers.

I work for a production company, we produce TV shows.

this sounds really difficult for you, op.

think I would be very clear with them that you will need to consider resigning if a compromise can’t be found. Not in an emotional way, just very calmly and openly. if there is no way that they can accommodate, I think you’ll need to line up something else asap.

If you can do 3 days, I would, or you might find 2 day alternatives pay entry level wages and you’re on the equivalent of one day of your current salary.

ultimately they can refuse this request if they feel the business won’t cope, they just need to demonstrate they have fully considered and consulted before doing so.

OP has already stated the reason she needs to change hours is not because of her own health problem or disability.

Having caring responsibilities for someone with a disability does not give her carte Blanche to demand any conditions she deems desirable- she can request it, all they have to do is justify their reasoning for refusing. I would say it would be very hard to justify a drop to 2 days a week for a Head of Department. They are not obliged to agree job share.

I think making threats to try and manipulate your employer to bend to your will, when the request is unreasonable, in that manner is actually hugely undermining to the whole principle. And highly likely to mark OP’s cards as someone they want to move on, even if they have to be very careful about how they do it.

There are definitely ways that they could have offered me another role in the company though for 2 days a week but they declined that as well.

Did your plan for reorganising your work involve putting 3/5 of your workload onto others? If so, why would they agree to that?

What does your partner do? Surely they could apply for flexible working too for the same reason, especially now your request has been refused.

The problem with the right to request flexible working is that people see it as a right to flexible working, when it isn't. You can ask, but it's ultimately the employer's decision.

I agree with this!

Well I am not surprised, you have already told them you are dossing about for three of the days they are paying you for!

Are those roles currently available/being advertised or are you expecting them to create a role specifically for you?

if it is the former- can they actually stop you applying? Have they said why they won’t move you to a different role that is available?

if it is the latter, I think it is a bit much to expect a job to be created for you.

I don’t have a partner or husband.

I’d be looking elsewhere, and honestly I’d go off sick if I needed to. I wouldn’t take that decision lightly but if I was absolutely on the brink of a breakdown or serious burnout and I was required to concentrate on family issues for a temporary period of time; I’d do it.
You could also use any annual leave to work shorter weeks a couple of times a month if they’d allow this.
I would still job hunt because they’ve proved they don’t really care much for your general wellbeing despite you being so excellent at work - probably because you work very hard and are an asset. Best of luck to you, I hope things become easier for you soon. It’s horrible having to burn the candle at both ends in serious situations where there is no let up. Take care Xxx

OP your employer does not have to agree to you working a 2-day week. It's a big change. If you would consider 3 days then ask them but otherwise you'll have to look for another job.

This is one of the big pitfalls I see over and over. From the decision-maker perspective one of the reasons I'm extremely cautious about approving part-time manager roles under me is that I believe that if I approve a role as part-time then I need to ensure that it will be able to be done in those hours without the sort of pressure you're experiencing and without negatively impacting others. I think that part of my duty of care is not setting employees up for "failure" (I'm promise I'm not calling you a failure but it sounds like you're in a no-win situation), and I will actively support time and workload boundaries for the part time or modified schedules I do approve. But I don't just say yes to requests/proposals and hope it works out; I feel like that often tends to be the permissive-parenting approach to these decisions, where they don't want to come across as inflexible or risk a good candidate/employee leaving but then employees are left to struggle with the realities and not enough ongoing support.

Including (presumably, given it’s a Head of Department role I think) managing your team, dealing with any escalations in a timely manner, covering leave and sickness of the team, attending all relevant meetings etc? I’ve never worked anywhere where a Head of Department role could be done in 2 days.

They would just make you do full time outputs in 4 days, that’s always be the given at my place!

I think she needs to pitch it as a job share scenario to work 2 days in department head role.

Is this the big scandal I was reading about that if your foster for blood relatives then you don’t actually get paid to be a foster carer like other foster carers? It’s absolutely shocking really, MPs take note!!

Call ACAS and see if there’s any protection as you are kinship.

what’s your sickness pay policy like? You may need to go off with burnout and then they will know what it’s like for you to not be there at all!

If you are a foster carer, don't you get a salary from the local council?

This is what I meant when I said I can do my job in 2 days.