To be annoyed that my employer won’t let me go part time?

[Topoftheroof]

I currently work full time 5 days a week. I made a flexible working request to go part time to 2 days a week because of personal circumstances (family circumstances) but it was declined. I’m annoyed though because there are other people (2 other people) working in the company only 2 days a week so it’s not unheard of. But they won’t consider it because I’m a head of department (not in a school and nothing to do with education or academics) and they also won’t give me another role in the company either which can be 2 days a week. I feel like I could cry with stress, I can’t afford to not work at all but can’t work 5 days a week at the moment either due to circumstances. I explained on my request that part time 2 days a week might not be permanent but they still declined the request. Both my boss and the managing director are always moaning that they “dread the day” I leave because “there’s no one in the business as good as” me so it’s baffling to me that they wouldn’t approve the 2 days a week knowing that I can’t work full time 5 days a week at the moment but then at the same time always say that they don’t want me to leave the company and would do anything to stop me leaving. I haven’t decided if I should appeal it yet or not, I don’t know what to do. I’m just really upset and have been crying about it because I can’t afford not to work at all and can’t do full time at the moment either. I’m also very annoyed with my employer too for rejecting the request. AIBU to be annoyed with my employer about this?

If you're telling them it can be done in 2 days a week, why would they pay you for 5?

This is what's wrong with people abusing the system.

YABU

They clearly don’t agree you can do your job adequately in 2 days and you clearly did not convince them otherwise at your meeting. They are totally justified in refusing your request if they can reasonably conclude that your request would be detrimental to the functioning of the business/ institution/ organisation.

Your employers duty of care extends to considering your application and giving you their reasoning for declining it, if they do so. I appreciate you are stressed and feel you are in a difficult situation- you haven’t said what it is- but they are not necessarily failing in their duty of care because they are not giving you what you feel would work for you. They have considered your application, has a meeting with you and so it’s not clear in what way you feel they have failed- other than the fact they did not agree with your assessment that your job could be done in 2/5ths of the time you currently work.

I’d be very surprised if you are correct you can do your job, in its entirety and to a high standard, in 2 days when you currently work 5 days. I’d be really surprised that a head of department could be so part-time and still fulfill the requirements of their role. Who makes decisions that need a HoD level sign off of you are not there 3/5ths of the working week, for instance? That seems unworkable and leaves your team very unsupported.

The fact that you cannot find a job elsewhere at your level that is only 2 days per week would tend to support your employers stance, in all honesty.

I think you are also putting yourself in an incredibly vulnerable position but telling your employer that your duties and responsibilities can be fully, satisfactorily completed in 2/5 of the time you use currently. That rather calls into question what you are doing now- you are clearly underworked and must spend a lot of time twiddling your thumbs. If true, your employer may decide that your role as it stands is obsolete and the department/the business could be reorganised to abolish your role and reallocate parts elsewhere or achieved in a different way. If you’ve told them you only need 2/5ths of your hours to do manage what you do currently, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they start looking into whether what you have requested is accurate.

You can be excellent at your job, your employer could think a great deal of you and be prepared to make a lot of concessions to keep you- but very, very few people are 100% irreplaceable. Your employer has clearly shown you today that they will not do anything to keep you. There is a limit- this is clearly it.

your best bet, I think , is to speak with your employer about what level of reduced hours they would consider. It could be on a temporary basis, to see whether it works for both parties. But you’d have to be prepared with what you might do if it does not work and they need you back full time. They may not wish to consider temporary changes, in case you then try to argue it set a precedent.

This. Inwould ask for 4 and see how you get on. You are brave to tell them your job can be done in 2 days, if that’s actually true .

I can’t. I can’t do that because mental or physical health problems are not the reason I need to go part time, so that’s not an option.

.Are you in politics by any chance ? Because you seem determined to evade the question many posters have asked i.e. How can your five days a week job be done in two days?

i don't know of any head of department role that could be done in 2 days a week. What happens when decisions are needed in a hurry. I think it was always a long shot.

you are on dodgy ground here, they are currently paying you for 5 so you are only productive 40% of the time, please please please dont phrase it like this. Say that you propose to do the highest value of your job in 2 days and you can outsource X Y and Z, the worst scenario possible is that you do 100% of your job with 40% of your wages which is effectively what you are proposing. You are super stressed and i get this but this is a really really poor outcome for you.

Is it due to childcare reasons?

I feel it’s hard to explain on here why I need 2 days or 3 days without explaining the full circumstances.

I guess you could say that but not in the usual sense, it’s very hard to explain

I too am struggling to understand how this could work. We don't know what the OP's exact job is, and I know that sometimes as the head of a team if everything is going well then you may well not have much to do. But part of being a head-of with line management responsibilities is to be there if the shit hits the fan. Which is why part-time head-of roles are few and far between, and 2-day-pw ones unheard of. I did once have a manager who supposedly worked 4 days, but more often than not he was doing a lot of stuff on his non-working day anyway; it just didn't work.

It sounds complex. I really would have the discussion with your employer about 3 days.

Sorry you’re in this position.

What was their business reason for refusing the request? That is what you need to appeal. If they just want you in 5 days because you are a department head then that sucks. You need to show how going to 2 days won’t be a detriment. If you seriously think you can do your job in 2 days that puts you in a risky position, however is there an element of your job (interactions with people, making decisions that needs you to be around 5 days a week, even if you think it could wait?)

Is the family commitment you need to reduce your working time for, something that you absolutely have to be the one to support. Is there a friend or a family member that could do it instead? Can you employ someone?

That’s how I have been saying it to them and that’s what I meant too when I said that my job could be done in 2 days (I did mean it is possible to cover the work on the other days and I explained to them in detail how that could be done), that I can do the highest value of the role and I have been explaining to them how the other work could be reorganised/covered and so on. I’ve been careful with how I put it across to them. I didn’t explain what I meant properly on my earlier comments, sorry.

It has to be me. There’s no other option.

Are you proposing your colleagues/team add 3 days of work to their workloads?

They have to be considered to, I would be pretty annoyed if I had to magicically do someone else's work whilst they go part time. Work that would be above my pay grade if its your reporting team being asked to cover it.

I am generally onboard with flexi requests and do believe they are great but you are putting yourself in hot water here.

I told my employer I didn't have enough workload to fill my hours, I was filling my hours working for other teams who really needed the extra support and I could have been utilised permanently there. I had the experience and skills required plus I wanted and asked for more work. They seemed onboard.

I was made redundant instead.

Telling your employer you can do your job at 40% compared to the current 100% is a red flag to a bull.
If you ask for further meetings to push this further you may well find yourself looking for another job without choice. And from the sounds of things your circumstances don't need the added stress.

You need to look for a stop gap job like retail where there's several people doing the same role. I appreciate they could of offered you a demotion but that is a HR nightmare and it's a lot of hassle for them for no business gain.

OP would you consider asking if they could turn your job into a job share? So you go down to 2 days (and take the relevant pay cut) and someone covers the job for the other 3 days? I’ve worked at places, even pre-covid when flexible working wasn’t so supported, that changed a FT role into a job share.

She has done,they refused to

They are point blank refusing to even consider a job share unfortunately.

OP, I'm sorry that you're clearly in a difficult position in terms of balancing work and care responsibilities.

But I don't think you're being reasonable about the impact that a department head with line manager responsibilities reducing to 2 days would have on the business and others. Availability, oversight and the ability to respond to needs in a timely manner are important parts of almost all management roles. It's not fair to everyone in your department to have a director or line manager with such limited availability, and it will likely affect the ability of the department to function when every problem or decision that need director involvement has to wait multiple days. Being able to cram all the time you spend actively performing tasks into 2 days ( I agree with others that you should not say this to your employer) is absolutely not the same as all of the tasks you perform being able to wait for the two days per week you work without it negatively impacting function and those who work with you. And while 1-2 years may technically be classified as temporary, you are not making a short-term request here.

They absolutely should not deny you the opportunity to apply for any part-time positions, but it's also not reasonable to expect them to invent a position they don't have need of for you. Talk to them about other accommodations they could make in terms of schedule and see if there's something that will work on both sides.

Most employers will consider a year or 2 as a permanent change though, 6 months would be more likely accepted as a temporary change.

if you keep asserting that your job can be done in 2 days, they would be well within their rights if they agreed it then not allow you to go back full time

keep that in mind if you are pushing, why would they pay you for 5 days work when it can be done in 2