Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

You'd have to be very very naive indeed to not believe there are many benefits fraudsters out there.

Go onto the office for national statistics and look at what benefits fraud costs the UK every year. It's horrific.

There are online resources dedicated to helping people scam their way onto PIP.

About 1000 new adults claim PIP every single day, and according to Radio 4's more or less programme, that doesn't even include about 400 people under the age of 18 who are pre existing claimants being moved onto PIP from other benefits.

The majority of those are claiming for mental health issues which are very hard to disprove, they're the new version of the bad back.

Go on, look up the fraud figures OP. Once you've seen them yourself it might give you a truer perspective.

About 1000 new adults claim PIP every single day

They apply for. Nothing says they're going to get it

If theoretically (and this really is theoretical) you diverted all the money that was currently paid out in PIP to education then it's quite obvious that this money could be spent in a way that would achieve all the goals you outline in your post regarding SEN children and educational provision for all. You would literally be increasing the education budget by 50% so things that are totally impossible to fund now such as more specially trained teachers and improved, accessible settings would be possible. It is an awful lot of money! Do you really not see how such a boost in funding would have a positive impact for disabled children? There are so many obvious and creative ways this money could be spent and it could be argued that the education budget is a key tool that we can use to tackle the MH crisis we are seeing in young people today.

Transport isn't all about public buses. Money could obviously be spent on making public transport more accessible and also looking at other transport options for the disabled. Again, diverting even half the money that is spent on PIP to the transport department would lead to a 50% increase in budget which would open up all kinds of opportunities.

Of course this money could also be pumped into the NHS or any other department. The amount we spent on PIP is significantly more than we spend on mental health services in the UK.

My point is that the money spent on PIP is significant as other posters seemed to imply. They insinuated we were being mean spirited by becoming fixated on such a meagre amount of public spending. I am simply pointing out that it absolutely isn't small fry. If we are currently spending the money on PIP then we aren't spending it on other things. Some of these things would hugely benefit disabled people and those who are struggling with chronic illnesses and health conditions that don't quite meet the criteria for PIP. It isn't a black and white situation where you are either disabled or in perfect health. It also isn't the case that we can keep a benefit like PIP (which is set to double over the next 5 years) and realistically think we can also fund other services as if we weren't also paying PIP.

The fraud figures have also been repeatedly posted on this thread, which are very low. Too much Daily Fail here…

Of course I'm privileged. I'm arguing that privileged people don't need extra state support because they have a disability. I don't really see how the rich not taking money indicates they want others to be kept beneath them - quite the opposite.

Still you've not stated what 'rich' or 'high earner' is though.

I don't know why a specific number matters to you so much. It would probably be linked to the level of subsidy. Maybe if your pip represented 5% of your disposable income that would be considered as a level that should be covered without much impact on your life.

I'm just curious. After all its not me stating it needs to be means tested

And the obvious flaws in the methodology that has been used to calculate the figures has been posted repeatedly too. Not one person has been able to explain how the DWP's methodology would catch all potential fraudsters or even most potential fraudsters. It is common knowledge what would need to be done to calculate an accurate figure but it is also common knowledge that the DWP isn't resourced to do this and doesn't have the powers available to use even if they did they have enough resources.

@Marshmallow4545 You are just obsessed aren’t you. A career in politics is not for you!

Obsessed with what? I hate misleading data and false certainty with a passion. I would much rather the DWP just admitted they didn't know the level of fraud associated with PIP rather than publish a number that is based on a flawed methodology. All you get is people on threads like this posting the 0/1% figure as if it's been peer reviewed and independently verified as completely accurate and then other posters stating that this figure has no validity whatsoever. The reality is that the figure is undoubtedly part of a bigger picture but we have no idea how what the actual figure is.

Blah blah blah. I’d rather focus on tax evasion, but sure continue your efforts on reducing benefits for disabled people. Have fun!

I think the fraud figures are a red herring. What most people are concerned about is that the scope of the eligibility criteria is too wide and therefore an unsustainable number of people are claiming legitimately. That is nothing against them for claiming what they are entitled to under the current rules but the rules will need to be tightened because the country cannot afford the benefit bill to be as high as it is especially the huge surge in younger people claiming who presumably will be lifelong claimants.

4% is a lot of government spending. It’s more than is spent on housing benefit and on child benefit which surprised me. It is legitimate to question whether this might be better spent on health and education services that might have a chance of preventing or lessening the impact of at least some disabilities.

Neither you.

It's not either, or. The government employees hundreds of thousands of people they can both focus on benefit fraud and tax evasion.

Mumsnet never has pages and pages of people talking about their concerns regarding tax evasion though.

There's a new benefits thread, usually focusing on disability benefits every other day it feels like.

I suspect it is more that when people post about benefit fraud the same old group of people come out to tell it doesn't exist or doesn't matter. That gets the conversation going and builds traction.

When people post about tax evasion, those who are pro tax evasion just keep quiet so the conservation dies instantly.

No one has said that it doesn't exist.

Lets also not pretend that it's all one sided. Of course some comments on threads like this when things like vouchers are suggested or motability cars should only be for those who work because where do you need to go otherwise or in some cases, PIP/DLA shouldn't exist at all are going to evoke strong reactions because it very quicky becomes about genuinely disabled people, not those who are claiming fraudulently.

I know i said i wouldn't reply, but this is info i don't think a lot of people really understand unless they've rolled a mile in my chair, so to speak :) So replying to you, but hopeful it teaches other readers a few points.

The public transport system not being fit for purpose is only half the issue for some disabled people. Yes it would be vastly better if it ran on time, there were more bus stops, we had the support at train stations to get on/off trains, and there was better access to wheechair spaces on buses, or Taxis were more accessible/cheaper to use... but those are not the only reasons disabled folk feel they can't use them.

In my case its unusable for several reasons. First i have to consider what service i'm using, and how to GET there. I could take my wheelchair to the bus stop, but then i have to pray that there are no hills or uneven terrain between there and my house, because my wheelchair is self propelled, and it takes a lot of energy to wheel on surfaces that aren't flat.
Then i have to hope the bus has a free chair space. I could get on and fold, but then i need my crutches, which means needing to also bring those attached to my chair, along with myself, and my bag.
Then i have to hope there is a bus stop near my destination, again that the terrain is wheelable upon. Then i have to reconsider the same on the way home, and hope my finite energy levels will last me that long, but potentially, it's going to take me out for the next 3-5 days.

I could take my crutches and walk to the bus stop, or train station, but again, i have to hope there is a seat, that my pain levels will last for that walk/journey/and back again.

Taxis-- well, i won't discuss those because you'd need to live where i live, where the taxis are not a safe form of transport for single females, never mind disabled ones.. means i have to prebook with our local womens run Taxi service which is very overbooked and near impossible to get without booking a week or so in advance.

Or.. i could skip all that and drive myself.

Public Transport isn't just a matter of accessible, its also about the trials of getting TO said PT, and home again.

And yes i did see you said about diverting money to make more options available. I used to work for one of the big convention centers as a volunteer for events planning, one of our jobs was to arrange a taxi/shuttle bus service for our disabled attendees from the hotels to the Convention Centre and back, i also have a close friend who owns and runs a Shuttle Bus company in London for the Special Schools, and i can assure you, it isn't that cheap, or that simple as just creating another service with a bit of extra funding.

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Exactly. It’s just very tedious at this point.

Your posts, and many others who are sharing their lived experiences, just fall on deaf ears with this poster and others who will just continue saying the same things over and over again. It’s wilful blindness at this point.

But I am sure there are people reading this who will have a better understanding of the lives disabled and chronically ill people lead, which is what matters.

Yes you’re right, if we keep people with learning disabilities, schizophrenia and depression in poverty they’ll get better much quicker.

So glad you agree with me

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