Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

Physical conditions are. I have been on a waiting list for so long for a wrist replacement, which was an option to keep my wrist as a functioning joint, that it is now too damaged to proceed with. I am having it fused in just over a week.

Irreversible. Lost the use of the wrist. Been left in pain for years.

This is just one of my examples.

You are coming across as incredibly dense.

Physical conditions are ignored too. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been told that my physical disabilities are in my head or anxiety

And there you have it. Is the best you can do is throw insults at people? It’s pathetic really. But carry on with your aggression as you are only showing up yourself

When I was student mental health nurse the trust had a very small museum on site which had records from victorian times from when people were sent to the county asylum
It was a fascinating read.

You would generally expect those who receive a benefit to be the most keen that said benefit was not abused. Yet on these threads people come out swinging that because they need the benefit for their disability all claimants must be genuine and need it. They seem unable to perceive a world where anyone would act fraudulently. It all gets very aggressively naive.

I don’t think anybody is disputing the tiny percentage of claims that are recorded as fraudulent. What people are disputing is the claim that the majority of claims are fraudulent and the massive numbers spouted due to ridiculous “my neighbours best friend”
type of rhetoric.

Claiming is arduous and you need a shed load of robust evidence. The numbers of fraud as regards this benefit are low for a reason.

I think this hits the nail on the head. For some reason some posters seem desperate for all PIP claimants to be seen as a homogenous group that is incapable of deceit. Ironically they will also simultaneously argue that they absolutely need to be treated as independent whole human beings and individuals like everyone else. I wouldn't argue against the latter of course but if you accept that those claiming PIP are human like everyone else then of course you will get liars, cheats and out and fraudsters in your numbers. Humans are flawed and there will always be a decent number looking to maximise a generous system for their own benefit. Before I get jumped on, disability benefits aren't necessarily generous for those with an expensive disability but it certainly is a pretty lucrative for those that actually don't have significantly different needs than the general population and therefore should only be eligible for pretty paltry benefits from the government in comparison.

Nobody has said the majority of claims were fraudulent. Most people have said that PIP should go to those who need it. Of course it should and those who are most in need in society should be protected. The narrative however has got twisted some what and there seems to be some very defensive and aggressive behaviour from some people in this thread who simply cannot countenance that for every benefit given by the government there will be someone who swings the lead

@R3838ech

"If physical conditions were treated the same, there would be a national outcry"

they are treated the same.

I've been complaining of back pain since i was 17. It took til i was 36 for them to finally agree to an MRI that found significant degeneration in my spine, total loss of 2 disks, causing sciatica that will never be fixed - now on lifelong meds for nerve pain.

What sparked that MRI was hip pain, and they found i had something wrong with my spine, but didn't address the hip pain, they just fobbed it off as 'referred' pain.

It's taken another 8 years to get my hip pain addressed..

Meanwhile my mobility has continued to drop, i have gone from mobile but with back/hip pain, to being an ambulatory wheelchair user, needing crutches to get anywhere, adaptations to my home, to pay for private physiotherapy because NHS physio said they couldn't help.

6 months ago my private physio found my hip pain wasn't imagined.. and 2 months ago a Rheumatologist found a 6yo x-ray that had obvious signs of Arthritic changes in my hip, an x-ray that was declared 'normal'. IT's also in my ankles, hands, and spine.

If ANY of this had been addressed 27 years ago, or even 8 years ago, and properly treated, i maybe wouldn't need to be claiming PIP now.

My story isn't unusual. There are SO many people, women especially, who are now significantly disabled because the NHS treated our physical health like mental health.. literally and figuratively.

ETA: IN that same 8 year period, my mental health conditions have been addressed and treated every time i've asked for help.. i've had intense CBT on the NHS forAnxiety, and been diagnosed with ASD/ADHD.

I have not once said in either thread that there is no Fraud, of course there is.. what i have combated is -

The belief that it is higher than the DWP claim it is.
That posters on here know better than the experts who's job it is to calculate those numbers.
That we should be paid in vouchers or itemise our disability costs.
That everyone knows someone (or 6 whole people in one case) who is swinging the lead.
That MH conditions shouldn't qualify
That Parents are purposefully claiming their kids are disabled to avoid needing a job.

They are treated the same.

The only reason why my son now has complex needs and was awarded DLA until he's 16 (he was 8 at the time it was awarded last year) is due to the fact that his initial physical condition was dismissed as something less serious and continued to be dismissed for hours when it became obvious something was very wrong. Nurses raised concerns and were also dismissed.

Shein and Temu - hopefully HMRC will follow the US tax authorities lead and close the small consignments tax relief that these business use. I don’t use these scummy companies.

Transfer Pricing is a totally legitimate means of doing business. To think otherwise is totally naive. Join the real world and stop reading the guardian. It talks such a load of cobblers.

Caroerl fraud is as old as the hills and HMRC have been pretty effective at clamping down on this in recent years. It’s not big companies doing this, but dodgy little fraudsters.

Care homes, children’s homes, water companies. Yup. Totally reprehensible means of financing. Nothing to do with tax, but this is what happens when we collect so little tax that assets such as children’s homes / care homesare sold for a fast buck, only for the authorities to then have to rely on private equity companies who charge an absolute fortune for their services. Same for special schools. And residential housing. We have sold off the assets (buildings) and are relying on private companies providing and they are taking us for a ride.

Raise enough taxes to build and run our own assets again (social housing, care homes, children’s homes) and we’d save a fortune. We aren’t doing this so are being shafted year after year.

And again nobody has said that. You are ignoring what I said in your quote.

Ha! That’s the pot calling the kettle black. You are so aggressive, it does little to further your argument.

This is exactly what I have been trying to say! You said it better, its like if someone said "no one would ever cheat on their spouse" just to prove they don't cheat on their spouse! Makes zero logical sense.

Mmm yeah right it's all the tories fault we have mental health problems. Boris gave me anxiety! 😂

I don't think anyone has said that no one ever commits benefit fraud, they just don't believe it happens as often as some people on here would like to believe and certainly not often in the exaggerated way it is usually claimed on here such as multiple luxury holidays abroad along with bragging to everyone around them how they 'blag' it without a care in the world that someone may report them.

There's a difference.

Thank you Blake

I’m not being obtuse but I don’t know what you mean by “you are ignoring what I said in your quote”

I don't think anyone is saying that there are no scammers. The problem some of us have is with the idea that the way to deal with scammers is to reduce benefits for disabled people in general. In fact, toughening up on benefits is likely to harm the genuine claimants the most, while the scammers are more likely still to find a way to work the system, because that's what scammers are good at.

What anxious people -and plenty of non-anxious people as well- did in the not-so-good-old days, and do in countris without benefits nowadays, is die young.

I meant to say many anxious (and non-anxious) people died young. Not all, obviously. But this is REALLY what I find upsetting. Not complaints about actual frauds, but the idea that we ought to make the system harsher for all, and that would force people to get over their mental, and sometimes physical, health problems.

.

No one is denying fraud exists.
It is just that some people on here are saying somethings are fraud when they are not. Things like someone spending PIP on having their hair done is doing wrong. Or being a claimant and be seen going to the gym or working in their garden. Or someone spending their backpay on a holiday.
Legitimate claimants are being accused of fraud by people who have no idea of their circumstances.

I don't think anyone has suggested that using PIP to fund nail appointments is fraud. The question was whether this is a good use of public money and whether PIP needs to be reformed. The system is clearly unaffordable and unsustainable in it's current guise. Tough decisions will need to be made. If it comes to funding someone's nail appointment or someone's wheelchair then I know what the vast majority of the population would plump for. The state simply can't afford to insulate people from the realities of their health condition to the extent that people seem to think is possible on this thread. It isn't an unalienable right to have your nails professionally done just because you previously had manicured nails before you became disabled. It makes a bit of a mockery of those fighting for genuinely important and life changing aids to even mention nail appointments and holidays in the same breathe.