Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

Higher care, no mobility plus the higher disability element comes to around £900 per month

jesus Christ that’s more than most people’s wages !

I agree ...my pip goes into the same account as my sàlery but I regularly pay for 'luxuries' such as getting my nails done ,trips to the hair dressers,expensive m&s pre prepared food(eg ready prepared veg) my garden to be done,my gym membership and nice holidays ...these are all things I either cant do myself due to my disability or impact positively on my physical or mental well being which strangely enough is compromised due to my disability .... People with disabilities are individuals with individual priorities and needs and shouldn't have to justify what they spend their pip on or be restricted via a voucher system.

It's also not true because you can't claim both LCWRA and carers element.

@frozenshoulderhell Careful, people will start frothing at the mouth at your admittance of spending money on getting your hair done and buying bits at M&S! You should be in sackcloth and ashes don’t you know.

(I agree with you.)

FFS report them.

Same here.

"Higher care, no mobility plus the higher disability element comes to around £900 per month"

It's not HRC, the amount isn't right. It will be Middle rate care and low rate mobility.

No PIP is not a. “Working persons benefit”.

No, the two benefits are not comparable for reasons I outlined earlier. Child Benefit is much more akin to the State Pension. They are more general benefits that you don't need justification to obtain or specific evidence.

PIP/DLA is an exceptional benefit that is awarded for a specific purpose (to meet the additional costs associated with the significant needs that a disability or health condition creates). It is therefore more logical for there to be restrictions on this kind of benefit because it has been awarded for a specific purpose, not just because you have a child or have reached pensionable age.

I don't really understand why you don't understand that CB and PIP/DLA are conceptually fundamentally different. The intention is the majority of children (through their parents) will be eligible for CB and it is meant to meet the general costs of raising a child. PIP/DLA is intended for a minority and is meant to be used to specifically meet the additional and significantly increased needs of a disabled person.

Employment status is irrelevant to PIP. Some claimants work, some don't.

And around a third of UC claimants are in work. They will be entitled to UC because their earnings aren't sufficient to cover the living costs of their household.

Where I live, the average rent for a 3-bed property in the private sector is £1700 a month. That would take the entire salary of someone on around £24k.

Haha... obviously people with disabilities shouldn't have nice hair or nails -those things have always been important to me and I used to do my own until my disability have made it impossible hence feeling completely justified in using my pip towards the costs ...
I think the problem is that society perceives those with disabilities as second class citizens and are less worthy of 'nice things' . I work full time but the truth is I have costs and needs directly or indirectly related to my disability and the purpose of pip is to help pay towards those added expenses

We are all individuals with individual priorities and needs. Of course this is true. A great proportion of the population would enjoy a holiday and this would hugely benefit their mental and physical health. Should the state be (partially) funding this for them too? Genuine question.

@frozenshoulderhell Yes absolutely, unfortunately these attitudes are rife on these MN threads! Do people really have nothing better to do than spend time hating on disabled people and begrudging them money that they’ve already evidenced they are eligible for? Some people have very sad lives.

Why ? The Dsd gets pip because she's unable to make a journey herself ...The very fact she's gone on holiday with the support of friends surely proves this ...

That means the government would have to properly fund the care I get from my mum which will cost more than £50 a week

Just where do you suggest the government gets all this extra money and people from to implement vouchers? And do you really think disabled people and their carers will have time? Some of us already have plenty of disability related admin

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I'm not necessarily advocating vouchers but I think there should be restrictions in place as to what PIP is intended to fund and this should be clearly outlined in people's applications. So for example you need £50 to fund care .. I can't imagine there being much controversy about that. The poster upthread wanting to fund nail appointments and holidays could detail this too. It would then be up to society through the means of democracy to shape the policy and decide where the boundaries are and what the population is happy to fund. There are a great many non disabled people that can't afford hair appointments, nail appointments or holidays so this may well prove very controversial.

There is also quite an issue with variable disabilities - it is very easy to see and understand that if you have no legs, you will continue to have no legs everyday (prosthetics aside).

It is harder to quantify the nature of disabilities which severely reduce one's energy budget, such that you might be able to choose to use all the energy you will have for several days on one seemingly quite large task and successfully complete it, but then be totally wiped out for three or four days (which is obviously useless for employment as well as quite an unhealthy way to live). It would be very disingenuous to claim this situation as equivalent to being able to complete the task repeatedly and at will.

A similar situation arises with chronic pain conditions - how much pain does society consider it is reasonable and ethical to expect someone to undergo to complete specific tasks which are pain-free for the majority? Is it none? Some? A bit for their own survival (food shopping etc) but none for leisure? As much as it takes?

If you're going to do that shit, then do it to UC.. i mean, it's meant to go on food, and bills right?
NO spending it on clothes, or shoes, or hair, or nails, or meals out, or takeaways, or holidays, or days out for you kids, or anything than your monthly outgoings.

Please submit an itemised bill of expenses every month for them to reimburse you that EXACT amount you spent.

It's bullshit, and it's dehumanising. WHY THE FUCK should i itemise my disability for some twat in DWP AGAIN, when i already had to DEMEAN and DEHUMANISE, and HUMILIATE myself in writing on the form, and to some arsehole stranger over the phone.

Do you have ANY idea what it's like having to explain in minute detail how you shit, and piss, and shower, and dress?

Completely agree with you that UC should be treated the same.

I think more controversy would come from the government realising the actual costs of disability and chronic illness to the individual. Certainly the lower rate of PIP does not come close to covering all the costs incurred for many people. They wouldn’t want to see that though would they, as that would mean needing to pay out more money.