Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

Yes, and many who claim PIP have been high earners before becoming disabled. (I was a senior marketing manager for luxury brands before I became too disabled to work). There are a lot of stereotypes about disabled people. I don’t do paid work now as my disabilities are too unstable but I do volunteer as an advisor for one of the autoimmune charities specific to my conditions.

Really? I’ve been diagnosed with lupus and Sjorgens but work full time

The fraud rate for PIP is 0.4%, so unless you’re claiming to know every single one of these 0.4% than you are wrong.

Good for you. We’re all different. I have Addisons disease, Sjogrens, lupus, interstitial cystitis and various pituitary issues. My life has been completely destroyed by my issues. I am under 5 different specialists and my conditions and the way they interact make my day to day life very unpredictable.

PIP is not awarded based on diagnosis but how those conditions affect you day to day.

Not sure anyone thinks that all PIP claimants are Fraudsters, but it is hard to believe that there aren't many fraudsters out there. Do you think there isn't anyone committing PIP fraud?

If there’s one thing I know about MN it’s that some posters are happy to lump all of a type of person into one negative stereotype.

You can work full time.

I work full time. I still claim PIP

It's not crap. I know people that get it but shouldn't.
I also knew and know people that don't get it that should. There's always those that ruin it for others.

Do they ask how you can work full time?

Means-testing PIP is definitely not the way to go. You are going to find some people who are 10p a week over the threshold who then wouldn't qualify. In my opinion, that's a step in the wrong direction.

It’s easy if you want to bare face lie. I know someone who got it for ten years no assessment or even a phone call and high on both, filled in the forms and that was it. Apparently can’t leave the house, read signs, follow directions but can drive all over the country. Can’t cook, get dressed them selves, take their medication but seems to manage this fine especially when they are partying all night. Then there’s also someone I know who really struggles with everything and needs a lot of support ended up in tribunal 2 years later and got low rate on both even though he can’t actually leave the house on their own. Seems hardest to get for the people who are honest and have real struggles

Lord Freud stated in 2013 that the PIP assessment criteria needed to consider whether a claimant could do something 'repeatedly, reliably, safely, and in a timely manner'. That's really important, especially concerning claimants who have fluctuating conditions. Just because someone can do something one day, it doesn't mean they will be able to do it the next. In effect, it means that if you can't do an activity as the above, then you can't do it at all.

Yes they do it can't contradict with your limitations from your conditions

So why don't you if you fit into the criteria can't dress, feed and wash yourself or walk more then 50 meters surely its costing you a fortune in carers, mobility aids, cleaners, taxis so thats what pip is for how are you affording this without it or do you have a partner who is your full time carer.

The fraud rate for PIP is 0.4%

That's the proportion of claims that are fraudulent that are caught.

The point being that if there's a lot of:

• unintentionally exaggerated claims where someone's in a rut & really believes themselves to be truly unwell
• claims where someone might be eligible for basic but has managed to get enhanced etc
• claims that were valid once upon a time but someone hasn't reported an improvement in their condition
• conditions which were never really intended to be covered but advice services have become increasingly good at guiding people how to answer questions to ensure they are eligible

These are simply very unlikely to be detected and won't be recorded as fraudulent claims, but do result in the scope of PIP becoming wider & more expensive than was ever intended.

Lord Freud stated in 2013 that the PIP assessment criteria needed to consider whether a claimant could do something 'repeatedly, reliably, safely, and in a timely manner'.

I'm aware of it. I think that judgement has unfortunately been extensively misinterpreted to allow for a vast, vast expansion of PIP coverage.

Yes there are people who fraudulently claim, unfortunately. Some people make it their absolute mission in life to try and gain as much money as possible from not working. You would think if they could put this effort in to working, then they would go far!
My mum have neighbours, husband and wife (disabled and carer) and they garden absolutely immaculately. Better than any landscaper I’ve ever had. But apparently has a back so bad, that they are bed bound for days on end.

Just because someone can do something one day, it doesn't mean they will be able to do it the next. In effect, it means that if you can't do an activity as the above, then you can't do it at all.

I'd also say my argument still stands that some people's interpretation of what "can't do it" means is much wider than others. I don't think the original intention was for "can't do it" to include people who feel they can't do something because they are anxious about it on a bad day, or it would leave them emotionally disregulated, for example.

I think it was meant to allow for physical disabilities with fluctuations, like relaxing remitting MS, or cerebral palsy where treatments like botox or physiotherapy (or activities like swimming) might temporarily improve mobility such that they can just about manage to walk a short distance, but are equally likely to be physically unable to do this at other times.

I think it was meant to allow for physicaldisabilities with fluctuations, like relaxing remitting MS, or cerebral palsy

Conditions that can severely impact a persons ability to do an activity reliably, safety and repeatedly include schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, psychosis etc.

Why on earth would it have not intended to include such conditions?

I should have been clearer.

I don't think it was ever intended to include people who feel that their mental health conditions like depression or anxiety, make these activities very difficult for them.

It gets where its drafted so that it includes every variation of the normal human condition/experience, such that almost everyone is classified as disabled based on their most difficult days.

If everyone is disabled, no one is.
Do you see?

We have to find a way to classify and direct the bulk of support to a smaller cohort - those most severely impaired - not 3.6 million of the population.

I don’t know how anyone can blah that system.

Yoy need a PhD to answer the questions the right way. Plus loads of evidence.

You are allowed to submit reports from anyone. Even baby sitters.

I was part of a club until l became too unwell to attend. The chairwoman wrote me a letter in support of my claim. I also had a fuck ton of other evidence.

The truth of the matter is that we’d very much like to be able to fund PIP
for genuine claimants but unfortunately there are a proportion of claimants who are just milking the system and the country can’t afford to pay them. I think we probably all
agree on that.

We’d also very much like also to properly fund and staff EHCPs and specialist SEN schools, but there’s an inverse population pyramid with more people in the older age groups than working people who have to pay to support them.

One of the things we need to discuss as a country is what proportion of public funds should be spent on be benefits and what proportion of education funding should go to SEN provision.

What proportion should go to improve the education and skill set of children without SEN, as presumably all of these children combined are going to need to work and pay taxes in order to support the state? We hear a lot about the increasing costs of EHCPs, but is this at the expense of children without an EHCP?

if you’ve £100 of public money to spend on education, how much do you spend on SEN provision, and what do you get for that spend? How does that money increase the child’s well-being and life chances? Is it effective? Is it the right investment of public funds? Appropriately staffed, well monitored and measured?

Same with all public funding. The NHS doesn’t spend public money on drugs without proven effect. So what’s the net effect of the benefit spend, the SEN spend? Where do you draw the line?

And other countries had Hepa filters and UV lights in buildings and schools to stop the spread. U.K. got nothing.

This is why LC is causing such a problem. I read that the main increase was in LC sufferers.

Also someone mentioned people with anxiety shouldn’t be able to get it. My dd was 13 in first lockdown, normal happy kid.

6 years later she’s still got social anxiety. When she should have been mixing and making friends, and building those pathways in her brain she was in lockdown.

And people go on about ‘snowflake’ young people. It makes me want to scream. What huge event impacted their lives? Was anything done to help them? No. So what do people expect?

Some people have serious mental health conditions, which are not going to get better - they may come in waves; but the fundamental conditions are always there.

My brother had an episode of paranoid schizophrenia; but he never went back to his previous normal self. He may not have the positive symptoms like hallucinations, but he still has negative ones.

IMO, it’s ludicrous to talk about some people with schizophrenia, personality disorders, bi polar disorder, OCD, etc as if all they need is to want to get better! I am sure every person with enduring MH problems wishes, they were better - but wanting is not going to cure them, any more than it would cure physical health conditions like MS, Parkinson’s, cancer, etc!

Another problem is getting effective treatments anyway - the waiting list round us for psychotherapy is 2 - 3 years. Then if it doesn’t work, and it turns out, you have complex PTSD; they say you need a period (6 months) of “consolidation” of the psychotherapy, before they will put you on the waiting list for EMDR….If you are suicidal, it can be very difficult to get private treatment, because it’s so risky for the therapist/psychologist/whoever. They push you back to the NHS.

Practically nobody wants to be ill! Why would they?