Friend hates her young daughter

[kingsofleah]

I’m not making this post to tear down my friend, I do genuinely want to support her but I don’t know how.

She has an 8 year old daughter we’ll call (L) who she just can’t handle, she has completely lost authority over her and she will not do as she’s told.

L can be very disrespectful and disobedient, when my friends tells L not to do something she’ll respond with shut up you bitch to her mother who then pleads with her to stop what she’s doing while L will adamantly refuse so my friend will conclude she’s a horrible child and she hates her.

She has two teenagers from a different marriage and they were both reasonably compliant and well behaved so I think she had a different experience parenting them and didn’t face the challenges she does with L.
I watch as she argues with L and loses every battle, she’s always been softly spoken with no assertion and just seems completely intimidated and overwhelmed by L.
I am concerned at her revelation of hatred towards her daughter which is probably pure frustration but certainly isn’t going to do anyone any good in the long run especially as she seems to be so incredibly close to her teen children I’m concerned she might create a golden child v black sheep effect.

I feel sorry for L because her mum has clearly no patience with her and simply can’t be bothered with her challenging behaviour.
L can also become aggressive and verbally abusive towards her older siblings and her parents.
I don’t know what I’d do in this situation but from what she openly tells me she can’t stand her and when L keeps on and on for something as she is quite stubborn and does keep on but my friend will just snap at her to go away or to leave her alone.
I don’t know if it’s child abuse or just not coping with a challenging child she seems like she’s just stopped caring and I don’t know how to support her.

She does have a husband (L’s Dad) but he seems to have had enough too.

She sounds burnt out, but unless you plan on making a referral to CSC there isn’t much you can do besides be a supportive parent.
No additional needs or ND? Any childhood trauma or adversity that L has experienced? Bullying at school or anything else? What is L like with friends or at school, or is it only in the home where she displays these difficult behaviours.

A lot needs unpicking but it all depends on how receptive your friend is to support?

I know this sounds OTT but will your friend contact the safeguarding/social care team?
They do early support for families. It's not about judging but trying to help, e.g. might help with parenting methods.

As much as I hate this when posters jump to suggesting undiagnosed needs but could she be neurodivergent with a possible PDA leaning profile?

I'd suggest she and her DH take a parenting course, which will give them new techniques for dealing with their daughter.

It definitely doesn't sound like child abuse. Clearly she is struggling to cope with an extremely challenging child, as is her husband. All you can do is support her, and perhaps suggest she seek some professional support with strategies to address her child's behaviour, local authorities and schools often offer quite a lot. Speaking to the school would be a good starting point with this. But she certainly doesn't need judgment and her revealing her feelings to you is a way of her venting some of the immense pressure she must be under. Unless she is telling her daughter that she hates her that is a non-issue.

Sounds like mum is at the end of her tether with child and totally burnt out.
Could you talk to her and see if she has considered getting some support for child’s challenging behaviour?

From what I gather she’s only like this at home and at school she’s quiet and doesn’t have any friends, although I don’t think she’s bullied but rather just unpopular.

Well, surely that's relevant? Her parents have disengaged, and no one seems to be concerned that she's completely friendless at eight? No one in her life appears to like her.

She would never do that herself but I could as I know them and the situation well.

Do they have the resources for a private assessment re possible autism or other issue?

I don’t know about the little girl but mum tells me she’s been waiting over 5 years for an assessment for herself. She’s very socially awkward and apart from me doesn’t have many friends or support and doesn’t live near her family.
Again a big concern.

Where is an 8 year old getting language like "shut up you bitch"? My kids at 8 wouldn't know those words... let alone how to use them.
This kid is learning that from somewhere...

I think she just cant believe bothered to parent her daughter. I take it they are both older parents and shes just given up.

Friend should try the emotion coaching, tuning into kids parenting course,

An 8 year old child should not be friendless, and I would be going to the school working out what can be done to help her.

Such a shame.

Wjat do they do for fun, together as a family?

I think they are comfortable so should be able to prioritise that.
I don’t think ND screams out at me, it’s more she is very strong willed.

I don’t think she’s learning it from home because it’s not that sort of family but because she knows it’s wrong she will keep saying it to upset her mum, possibly for attention?

Is your friend working with the school to figure out if anything is wrong there/ support needed? An 8 year old with no friends would be a massive concern to me. Regardless of whether she’s bullied or not that must be a very lonely and stressful time for her to be at school all day with no friends to play with. If your friend is trying to get assessed herself then I’d say that it’s likely the daughter could be ND as well. The language she’s using is also concerning. Is this something she’s hearing at school or at home? From somewhere she is getting the idea that this is an acceptable way to speak to people. I’d suggest to friend that she seeks support from GP/school nurse/SS or somewhere. A child that’s rejected at school and at home is going to have issues regulating their emotions.

Do it. They can link with school and see about issues there and hoping put support in.

I really feel for the daughter - she's 8 and communicating she is horrifically unhappy. It will only get worse if she's not helped.

You come across so judgmental, and contradictory. You don’t want to tear down your friend but the language you use does exactly that. Are you doing anything to help and support this poor woman?

I don’t think she’s doing anything about it, she blames L entirely and feels sorry for herself that she got a child like this.

Being strong willed is a hallmark trait of autism though. And it presents differently in girls to boys. If I was working at the school and saw an extremely quiet child with no friends, who was very explosive and willful at home, I'd definitely look into referring her for assessment. Also, no surprise this poor girl is lashing out - clearly nobody in her life likes her or supports her. What a sad life at 8! She needs assessment and support for whatever she has going on.

I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t care, I have seen her try and fail at my suggestions before so wanted to see what other people would say as a friend.
I won’t have L on my own because I know I couldn’t handle her either so I do get it but I also care about L and her wellbeing, she’s a very young 8 with serious anger issues and her mum is intimidated by her so rather than parent her she becomes locked in battles she inevitably won’t win because she doesn’t have the stamina or stubbornly nature L has to win.

Well if you won't have L on your own - even for half an hour - how do you expect someone else to be able to live with her day and day our, and still be perfectly amicable?
Poor woman, I'd say she wishes she could runaway from L and her behaviour.

Some kids are twice the work of other kids. Mine are both ND and parenting is bloody hard work. Its relentless. If either of mine said shut up you bitch to me they would be properly punished. As in I would be using shock tactics, taking every gadget immediately, they would be going in their rooms and being told very firmly that it is not acceptable and they are very very wrong and not to talk to me until they come up with a proper apology.
If tour friend is just letting all of this happen it sounds like she has lost the will to parent and probably needs some support like parenting classes. There is absolutely no way an 8 year old should be saying shut up you bitch to their mum and it being let slide.
Also some therapy for the child sounds like it could be good, all behaviour is a communication. There is obviously an issue.
Family therapy could also be an option.