Friend hates her young daughter

[kingsofleah]

I’m not making this post to tear down my friend, I do genuinely want to support her but I don’t know how.

She has an 8 year old daughter we’ll call (L) who she just can’t handle, she has completely lost authority over her and she will not do as she’s told.

L can be very disrespectful and disobedient, when my friends tells L not to do something she’ll respond with shut up you bitch to her mother who then pleads with her to stop what she’s doing while L will adamantly refuse so my friend will conclude she’s a horrible child and she hates her.

She has two teenagers from a different marriage and they were both reasonably compliant and well behaved so I think she had a different experience parenting them and didn’t face the challenges she does with L.
I watch as she argues with L and loses every battle, she’s always been softly spoken with no assertion and just seems completely intimidated and overwhelmed by L.
I am concerned at her revelation of hatred towards her daughter which is probably pure frustration but certainly isn’t going to do anyone any good in the long run especially as she seems to be so incredibly close to her teen children I’m concerned she might create a golden child v black sheep effect.

I feel sorry for L because her mum has clearly no patience with her and simply can’t be bothered with her challenging behaviour.
L can also become aggressive and verbally abusive towards her older siblings and her parents.
I don’t know what I’d do in this situation but from what she openly tells me she can’t stand her and when L keeps on and on for something as she is quite stubborn and does keep on but my friend will just snap at her to go away or to leave her alone.
I don’t know if it’s child abuse or just not coping with a challenging child she seems like she’s just stopped caring and I don’t know how to support her.

Wow @FairKoala can't believe what I've just read. Just fyi there's a big difference between having ASD/autism and being dyslexic. They are not remotely the same.
I was a SAHM for 4.5 years and with all the love and attention I gave my son i simply could not parent away his ASD. It's ridiculous to even suggest it's a thing.

It sounds to me that after already having raised the other two, that she doesn't have the same energy/not as invested in raising her. She could need support too. Sounds like the 8 year old is struggling also and blaming her is only going to distract from finding a solution and could very well make things worse. I would suggest her spending more quiet time with her daughter and offloading some other tasks if possible. The daughter sounds like she could do with more support and guidance

She sounds like a painfully unhappy child and bluntly, that is on the parents. She has no friends at school and parents who appear to hate her. Where does she go to feel liked, let alone loved? Where does she go to feel like a worthwhile person who is seen and valued and people want to be with?

She has parents who failed to parent her into socially acceptable ways of behaving or given her boundaries, but have rather crumbled in the face of this and console themselves in alcohol. Have they not even bothered to try to find support to help their daughter? Not bothered to google where they can find this?

I'm not going to apologise for being harsh. In much tougher circumstances than them I have sought out every bit of help I could get for me and my kids, and its helped us to get to a much better place. My kids love me and they know I love them. Its not been easy, but you don't give up, and there is a lot of support out there once you are in the system..

Find your friend the number of the local family support service - the council probably run one. And tell your friend to phone them up. This problem is going to get worse, not better as the daughter grows up. And worse than that, her daughter is going to grow up to be a deeply damaged, deeply unhappy person who is likely to form terrible relationships with terrible men and repeat this cycle of abuse with her own children. Your friend is setting in motion a pattern of generational abuse. And the way she is treating her daughter is abuse. So tell her to stop burying her head in a bottle of bloody wine and make that call..

Shut up you bitch? Yeah, OK. I'd spank that kid so hard her grandkids would feel it. This is a situation of her own making, though. My kids wouldn't ever speak to me like that. They have attitude sometimes but that is beyond attitude, that's just disgusting, disrespectful behaviour.

This should have been nipped in the bud early. 'No, you do not speak to me like that. Go to your room until you can be civilised.' Deal with it at age 3 so you aren't dealing with it at 13.

This sounds like a very sad situation. If saying she hated her wasn't he heat of the moment I think it's a huge problem and there's no way the child hasn't picked up on that which is so damaging (hating them in the moment is pretty awful too but feels more repairable). All the things you've described sound like a family on the edge. And they need some support. So id speak to the mum with some resources in a quite tough love way (the councils early help/ family support/ books mentioned above / on line parenting).

I think people are right to point out that their could be ND and that does of course change so e of your parenting strategies but at the moment she has none. Maybe her other children were 'easier' maybe she was in a different place and more able to parent but it's not a given therefore that this child must be different and it's 'her fault'.

I emphasise with you because this is really hard to stand alongside. I had a similar situation which escalated where I ended up reporting concerns and ended the friendship. I couldnt see another way and while I wished I could have stuck around for the child I began to feel I was making things worse acting as a crutch or trying to prop up what was increasingly becoming abusive

Sounds like a vicious cycle!
it sounds like what’s best is for your friend to get a reset and some guidance. Meaning really good parenting classes that will give her skills. And possibly touch upon symptoms to look out for, for certain nd.
From the posts alone, I don’t strongly suspect nd. I see a kid who is miserable, knows her parents are miserable, she’s struggling, she sees ds have a good relationship and she’s just failing everywhere - she’s begging for boundaries attention and love and her needs aren’t being met. and the only way she knows how is to push harder, she’s waiting for a reaction, trying to get attention and nothing is working, so it’s getting worse.

Sounds like ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder). Also, possibly, some attachment problems. I feel bad for your friend, honestly, but she has to get the kid some real help or it will probably only get worse. I know of people with children like this, often from the child being in foster care and adopted, and it led to divorce, depression, and all sorts of other problems. If the child is only 8, imagine how she will be as a teen!

You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so don't assume anything. There could be domestic abuse, alcoholism, other addictions, financial issues etc.

What you've witnessed and described here is a serious behaviour issue and parental neglect which may tip over into abusive parenting, plus evidence of drinking.

Ring NSPCC for confidential advice.

I think you need to stop trying to interpret and just state what you see.

If your friend won’t seek help please report to social services. This is emotional neglect. This poor child has no friends and is disposed by her parents! She clearly needs some attention and whether it is something ND something isn’t right here. Children are not born bad.

She definitely sounds like she is ND with a PDA profile (from my personal experience with my diagnosed child)
I'd speak to school, ask if they can get an educational psychologist in to see her, also ask for a referral to other services and support teams

I have a neurodiversity and neurodiverse kids. I think the child in the OP is badly behaved and the parent is a rubbish, weak parent.

I agree with you. I have a friend in her 50’s with a 10 year old daughter and both her and her husband just indulge her rather than parent her. She is extremely hard work and has endless demands and tantrums and they just give in to what she wants. Interestingly, she has been over to ours to play with my child, and she’s been petulant with me but she responded to me “parenting” her. I do find her very hard work though and her parents bought her a phone which she uses constantly now as they obviously don’t have the energy to engage with her. She has friends but she’s relatively immature. It’s very kind of you to be trying to help.

Unless you have other major concerns or your friend openly says directly to her daughter that she 'hates' her, do not do this!

I think a trusted adult needs to talk to the child. Her behaviour is not normal for someone so young and could be an indication that something is troubling her. It could be abuse from inside or outside the home or a worry about something that she as a child can’t handle.

Haven't rtft but I have an autistic child who when they were this age- and crucially before we fully understand her needs so we're able to avoid meltdowns-.was.violent etc.

This sounds like it might be an undiagnosed autistic child who is exploding after masking all day at school. And whose sensory and autistic needs are not being noticed and responded to in the home environment

If the parents are nd they may be struggling to cope
Op this is really tough if you are concerned for the child I would write anonymously to the safeguarding lead at the child's school and copy in the senco

Tell.them the family urgently need suppoe5 for the child's sen needs and that they need family suppir6 too

To encourage your kindness op ...my child is absolutely transformed now we properly understand her needs. She is calmer and happier as are we.

She urgently needs to get professional help with her DD annd support for herself, especially as she is only 8 and the situation will continue to spiral if she doesn’t. The DD is probably very unhappy if she is disliked at school and home and has no friends.

Yeah that's a great way to deal with it... 🥴

Yes it is, doesn't have to be physical or loud name calling, it can be very covert and subtle, so much so that the Teachers sometimes don't have a clue what's going on, same thing happened with my DD..

Your friend could ask school to do a CAF assessment (formal assessment using a framework) because of concerns around : lack of friendships in school, agressive behaviour at home, parental struggles with behaviour management, struggling family relationships. The school can then, with parental agreement, invite other professionals who may be able to provide support, to a meeting - including parents. These are known as "Team Around The Family" (TAF) meetings. Professionals and families work together to ensure needs, support agreed, and progress, are regularly reviewed, and that everyone is following the agreed plan of support.
I'd be making it clear to your friend that she has a responsibility to step up and seek support for her daughter, and the rest of the family.

.If this was me and that child has oppositional defiance disorder or a conduct disorder or whatever I would be medicating her. I would not put up with being assaulted or being spoken to like that.

Shocking.

As someone who has recently been diagnosed with ADHD at 50, it really screams ND to me. My siblings, children and grandchildren have varying degrees of autism and ADHD. Girls often present much differently to boys, some completely falling through the net. PDA often presents with other diagnoses. She needs an assessment, even if she’s not neurodivergent, she clearly needs help, they all need help. My daughter was 19 and 25 before she was diagnosed with Autism and ADHD and it was a nightmare trying to get anyone to listen to me.

Try and encourage her to push or pay for an assessment and ask the school for support.

Positive parenting course for your mate (you can get them free online from LA) and a therapy session for L.

Poor child, she has no friends and her Mother hates her, it's no wonder she's acting like this

That’s heartbreaking. I wonder when that child last had a cuddle, or heard any words of affection?