To be worried about the dark political direction of this country

[Krenonges]

Has anyone else seen the video doing the rounds of Farage being properly grilled in Congress? Honestly, it was the first time I’ve ever seen him held to account, unlike here, where the UK media give him endless airtime and barely challenge him.

They raised his 17 appearances on Russian state TV and his open admiration for Putin. Shocking, but not exactly surprising. Apparently he’s over in the US slagging off the UK, trying to cosy up to Trump, and giving speeches at far-right, anti-abortion events. Is this genuinely what he’s about now?

What I can’t wrap my head around is how he continues to poll so highly. Time and again he seems to act in ways that are completely at odds with the UK’s best interests, yet his supporters see him as some kind of saviour who’ll “stop the boats”. The irony being, of course, that the small boat crisis is a direct consequence of Brexit – the very thing he spent years pushing.

I know politics is never squeaky clean, but this feels different. It feels like there are darker, more insidious forces backing him, with the aim of undermining and dismantling the country bit by bit. It’s frightening to think how many people are still buying into the image he’s carefully crafted for himself, when the reality seems so much murkier.

All I ever hear from Reform voters when I challenge them is 'Yes, but Labour are crap' or 'You're just a leftie'. I'm not that left wing or even a Labour supporter, and i know Labour arent doing a good job right now. I just can't understand why people think Reform is the best alternative when Farage is clearly going to pimp the country out to his rich backers. The 'stop the boats' immigration debate is just the red herring, dog whistle policy that will get him votes.

There is no centre right movement, which believes in low tax, high growth, business friendly ethos which understands that the best way to make a prosperous nation is to encourage enterprise, let people keep their own money, incentivize productivity, not a welfare lifestyle. Reduce immigration drastically and to high skilled, high earning net contributors, and get the millions on benefits back to back work instead instead of giving out freebies. And steer clear of workery.

This is a fantasy though. You can't have low taxes with an ageing population & our NHS & social care model. Subsequent government policy plus Brexit, Covid, global instability has lead to us being a high tax, low growth with declining public services country which is what we are feeling now. Wages have stagnated for years but many are only feeling that now because mortgages & food was cheap.

You can have high taxes & decent public services or low taxes & little safety net.

However the public wants low taxes & a safety net. And without decent growth which has eluded us for nearly 2 decades, higher taxes are inevitable to fund public services or even just pay debt interest.

The vast majority on benefits are pensioners in receipt of the state pension or people working getting topped up with housing benefit etc. Our distorted housing market impacts income and disproportionately impacts young workers. This does not foster productivity.

I think we need a complete shift in how we fund public services and what is paid out eg I would pause the triple lock, build more social housing and not sell it off, I would overhaul property taxes but the majority won't vote for this as nobody wants to pay more because they want someone else to pay. 🤷🏻‍♀️

The reason some don't see and understand this is because it works well for them. They can hire tradesmen, or in the case of off-shoring, buy goods, at a cheaper price. Immigration thus benefits the middle classes by suppressing wages.

That it isn't good for the other local workers who now have to live on the suppressed wages doesn't seem to occur. I can only really conclude that many are rather thick, just as they accuse the wc people who are tired of it of being thick.

The self interest oozes from him. I didn't want to up the Reform viewing figures for the conference but did watch some of it and I don't know how anyone thinks these people can be trusted to run anything, let alone the country. There was something quite creepy about the whole thing like a display of wholesomeness hiding a real darkness!

Farage is also a backer of cruel blood sports. Anyone who supports him supports hunting. If Reform get in we will see a return to legal hunting in this country.

Duplicate

He’s vile.

Can’t believe some people think he gives a toss about them. He wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire.

Reading this thread, there seems to be a lot of ‘Blair/Brown/Cameron/Starmer didn’t listen to us on immigration so now we’re going to punish everyone by electing a far right government.’

I might have missed them but I haven’t seen any posts explaining why we shouldn’t be worried because Reform is the best option for the country’s future. Why Nigel Farage is the best option for Prime Minister (despite his Russian connections and his role in causing immigration to increase very significantly). Analysing the improved outcomes that similar governments have made in other countries - the US would be an obvious example. The Economist has crunched the numbers in the Reform manifesto and says they’re utter fantasy, but presumably their supporters disagree so it would be interesting to hear about that.

That might be a thing for you, and maybe the liberal Mumsnet demographic, but I'm not sure it's a big issue for people who could be swayed towards voting for Reform.

There are still fox hunts anyway, the relevant act of parliament contained so many exemptions that it was almost meaningless.

Sorry, no.
That’s abuser talk - ‘look what you made me do’. If people are taken in by a lying grifter who quite clearly is only in it for himself and is clearly stirring division and racism, that’s on them, nobody else.

I am praying and hoping that labour manage to sort the immigration issue, it’s the only way to stop Farage.

Labour - nor any other party - will be stop refugees and asylum seekers while UK is still a signatory to the 1951 UN Refugee Convention.

It can be done in the same way other countries do it but are still part of the 1951 convention.

Like which countries?

@TempestTost why do you think the middle classes haven't seen wage stagnation?

@Midnights68 I have never seen answers to those questions.

Caring for animals isn't the preserve of liberals. You only have to look at the facebook photos of Reform fans to see how many of them have dogs/pets.

Fox hunting and hunting for stags with packs of dogs does currently get through loopholes but removing all legislation would be a complete free for all.

Except the ones that vote the same as you?

Pet owners are not animal lovers. They only care for their pet and don't give a shit the harm they do to wildlife

Exactly this. People seem to want to vote for Reform basically to punish other people. I'm convinced a big proportion of Brexit voters had the same view. It's very uncommon to come across either who can give a positive reason why either would make their (or anyone else's) lives better.

The number of people saying this is nuts! What evidence, or reason even, do you have for saying Starmer hates the country? It’s utterly mad.
And as a PP has pointed out, Farage definitely isn’t a patriot or he wouldn’t be running off to get paid for talking the country down.

Actively hate? What on earth do you mean? I don’t understand the mindset which comes to that sort of conclusion. I can’t begin to argue against it because it’s devoid of logic or evidence.

I'm confused by the hate comment. Why would you take the PM job if you hate the country, it doesn't pay that well!

Thats a daft assessment.
And you can say no, but it is factually right.

And your sorts attitude is what is paving his way to victory.

My sort?
What’s that then?

It terrifies me.

Then my (possibly deluded) optimistic side kicks in and says - hang on, at its heart England (not talking UK) is a centrist, conservative with a small c country. People want the NHS, free education etc. He has 5 MPs. Where will he find the others? What are his policies really? Where Reform have taken control of councils NOTHING is happening (I’m in one). His fanbase are disgruntled and ignorant Gammons, racists and disaffected yobs who’d be better off as football hooligans.

The media is my bugbear, especially recently the BBC. The Liberals have more MPs and where do you ever see them? I watch Channel 4 News these days for some balance.

Ignorant individuals with views of grandure and the belief that they are better than those who agree and vote reform. As a result they should only be viewed with disdain their opinions scoffed at and never listened to.

Carry on. The threads when he gets in will be great reading.