DH told two year old to hit back

[NachoChip]

Our two year old DS got bitten at nursery yesterday. This morning, DH told DS that if someone bites him, he should hit them back. His rationale is he doesn't want DS to be pushed around and that the child will soon learn not to bite him again.

AIBU to think this is way too young to totally confuse a two year old that you can hit in this circumstance but not in any other. And that returning violence - on a two year old who themselves are developing and learning - is damaging and ridiculous.

Also, AIBU to worry that even if I get through DH now, when DS is older DH is going to teach him to hit back at school etc. How do we approach this? I want to teach DS to be able to stand up for himself but not to fall into this toxic alpha male masculinity that violence is the answer.

Wise MN, what is your advice please?

We're talking about 2yos! Girls are definitely just as physical as boys as toddlers.

2 is far too young to teach to hit back- especially if you're expecting them to then play nicely with younger siblings/ cousins/ friends children l. They can't see her difference between hitting a bigger child who intentionally hurt them and a 9month old pulling their hair.

I've always taught mine to walk away/ get an adult but at soft play there was a little boy who kept targeting my 3.5yo DD. I spoke to his mum but she was tied up with a baby, in the end i told DD to push him back and roar at him. It worked he buggered off to torment a different child.

I think it's really hard as ideally toddlers are with adults who would step in, they shouldn't need to defend themselves. Equally engaging an aggressor as an adult is much more likely to end in injury for yourself. Decent self defence classes always teach walk away/ deescalate before fight back.

I’ve never been hit nor have I hit anyone in my entire life. My own children and now GC have also never been hit nor have they hit anyone. I had one child with extra physical needs and have one GC with Autism who could be seen as sitting targets. My own children and now GC attended RC schools. Hitting isn’t tolerated so absolutely no need for parents to teach a child to ‘hit back’

I agree with what you say about two being too young to teach self-defence in a physical form.

But I'm afraid I disagree that girls are as physical. In my experience I haven't seen as many girls hitting. Doesn't mean some don't, but its been rare in the "samples" of girls I've known. I guess these opinions might be sample-dependent.

What's any of that got to do with OP's child who is being hit?

I grew up with my dad's message being "hit them while the other guy is still talking". And while I can see where he was coming from (he was a scholarship boy at a prestigious public school in the 60s/70s, academically very able and built like a brick shithouse), it's not the message I wanted my kids to have.
When they were very little, we definitely had a "we do not hit" rule, but that is certainly morphing as they've got older. Our son is 8 now, very sporty, very competitive and most definitely a boys boy. Now he knows that he shouldn't hit first, but if someone hits him, then he has our backing to clock them back.
Mostly because we don't want him to ever feel like a target who can't defend himself. Unfortunately, it's a much more complicated world out there than "we never hit". Sad but true.

I was "smacked" as a child, as many of us 80's children were. Not hard - probably too tamely in some eyes at the time - but I felt the indignity. My brothers' schools still had the strap or cane! Rarely used, but there were a few infamous outings of it.

But I agree, thereafter hitting just hasn't featured in my life - nor, if I am honest in my dc's lives thus far. I guess that's why I've not really taught them physical self-defence, but am prepared to listen to views on this thread - which echo comments made by my dh from time to time.

I agree

Not at 2 but I agree that it can get complicated when they get older.

A 2 year old is too young to understand the difference between a hit or someone bumping in to them by accident. It's also possible they are sharing a room with younger children and are 'hitting back' a baby which isn't going to go down well.

My 2 year old has very clear instructions. No hitting. No exceptions.

Don’t bloody teach two year olds to go round whacking each other ffs! Before you know it the staff are trying to break up a full on brawl between toddlers with all of them screaming because they’ve punched each other 🤦‍♀️

Talk to the staff if you are concerned about your ds getting bitten.

I taught my two (boy and girl) to defend themselves if necessary.

I said that I would always have their backs if they acted in self defence, but if they ever hit first, they would be in a whole world of trouble and they'd live to regret it.

They both do a martial art as well, which is good at teaching them rules of engagement, how to avoid getting into physical conflicts, etc.

I'm glad I've taken this approach because when my son was in year two, he joined a new school and there was a boy there who tried to pick on him. He had my son up against the wall in the playground by his throat and my son fought back - knowing that I would stick up for him if he got in trouble with the school. That was all it took and my son was never bothered at that school by anyone ever again. He went on to make lovely friends and thrive there. If he hadn't have fought back and 'turned the other cheek' and 'snitched' to the teacher, I think he would have become a victim to the bully and ostracised. In my experience teachers can rarely tackle bullying properly. It's seen as trivial playground scraps when, for the child experiencing it, it feels anything but.

I think once a kid is about six, they should learn that if you hit someone they might hit you back. So that's one of the reasons why you don't hit people.

But at age 2 I think it's a bit too heavy a concept. Basically at that age it should be tell the biter/hitter that was horrible/nasty and tell an adult.

I would also say that for 2 year olds, hiting/biting/hair pulling is a phase that staff and hopefully parents will be working hard to get the child out of. The offending biter will be told NO we don't use violence, gentle hands, use our words. If he gets a whack in the face, the message is just not going to stick. Literally violence doesn't solve anything. My DD was a hair puller for a highly embarrassing month or so when she was 2 - we just worked through it and she was quickly a reformed character. Thank god her nursery didn't devolve into a never ending chain of retaliatory violence because of a bad habit that lasted a couple of weeks!

I was bullied at secondary school (as were all the first year girls) by a gang of older boys. My father taught me to box and hit back hard - but only after being hit first. The result was that I broke a boy's nose and no one ever bullied me again. This was back in the late 1950s so it was not all dragons and unicorns then. Children should be taught to defend themselves but not to hit first.

Telling a 2 year old to hit back is utterly, utterly appalling.

All my children have done (and still do) martial arts and the skills they learn will stay with them for life. As you said it’s all about not letting someone in your space. You don’t necessarily need to hit back but you can defend yourself.

I agree with your DH in principal. My DHs stance has always been don’t start it but finish it but I think two is too young to understand the concept

I agree with your DH, as I was bullied very badly all my life by one older sibling, others at school, work, and in a relationship too. I was a shy and scared child/adult, who was taught to "turn the other cheek."

When my now young adult child was constantly hit the first week of starting reception at school, I broke that "turn the cheek" rule and told her to defend herself, otherwise she'd be living a repeat of my life! I'm glad I did as that child NEVER bothered her again. While my child is a lovely person she has boundaries and doesn't take crap from anyone, I look at her and wish I could be like her.

Yes it's very important for children from a young age to be able to defend themselves. As its a horrible existence constantly being bullied, I use to be terrified to go into the shared bedroom with that sibling and school too. Now in my 40s I've finally got a bit of a backbone 😆. I guess better late than never!

@NachoChip dont hit first, but always hit last!!! especially with older children when others are on the verge of becoming bullies. no matter what school says!!

I do not think this is a toxic masculinity issue, or that is has anything to do with masculinity at all, but all to do with self defence and standing up for oneself. It applies to is all. Nobody wants their child to become the target. You have to teach your two year old to stand up for themselves.
Telling a two year old to hit back has its dangers, as they could as well end up stabbing the other kid on the eye without really knowing what they are doing. They do not know much about actions and consequences at this age. But you need to teach your child to make it difficult for this kid to bite them. Tell them to shout for help, to tell this child to stay away from them. You do not want your child to act scared and run away. It is the other child who has to learn to be nice.
But at some point in life, you will come across the hit back, speak oit back, stand your ground lesson. Otherwise, children end up being the targets, when they keep quiet and back off.

2 year olds hit or bite because they have no impulse control, not because they are bullies! I generally agree with the teaching kids to stand up for themselves but we're not talking about a school kid being picked on, we're talking toddlers with no self control!

People seem to be missing the fact that the original post is about a 2 year old.

Surely not at nursery?!!

I know a dad who did this with his girl, no particular reason, just started off at a pre-school age telling her to fight (back) but the back bit got lost. So lost she used to pick on boys because her dad thought it was funny she was larger than them. She's a teen now and a massive bully, not surprisingly, and had a lot of issues in Primary because of this as she would sneakily push, hit, kick and lash out at other kids then deny it. Her mum put her foot down with the 2nd born and they have not got the same issues, in fact a little scared of the eldest it appears.
It will have an effect if left unchecked from what I've seen. Men think the best way to parent is "machismo" and it's often confusing for kids.

How about an almighty angry roar followed by a vicious snarl?
Scarier than hitting and sends a very clear message.

A very clear message that it's funny to provoke this kid

I was like you. Until aged 5 my son told me he ‘didn’t want to wake up in the morning mummy’ one night at bedtime due to the incessant bullying (violent and mental) he was enduring from the hateful little twats he had to spend his reception and year 1 with. You can tell them to tell a teacher all you like just like I did, but if those teachers have the intelligence of a particularly stupid goldfish like my sons teachers they will do fuck all. Now, my sons told you don’t start a fight but you finish it.